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Living With Grief Episode Transcript

00:11 - Nachi (Host)

Welcome to another episode of I'm Not Yelling, I'm Dominican podcast, hosted by Nachi and Damaris. We're two Dominican American sisters chatting about everyday life topics and discussing alternatives to vibe and hire. So grab your coffee seat or tea, sit back and let's vibe.

00:29 - Damaris (Host)

Hi everyone, welcome back on today's episode. We're going to talk about managing grief. We all have experienced grief in some form, and sometimes it can take over us and can seem as as if we'll never see the light of day when we deal with a loss. So we're gonna touch on different forms of grief, coping mechanisms and, most importantly, how to be there for someone in the grieving process. We have the pleasure of having a special guest today, Lindsay Fernandez, founder of Life After Loss, and I would love, Lindsay, for you to give our listeners a little bit more information about life after loss, what you do, how you, how you contribute to the community with your wonderful services and your skills.

01:13 - Lindsay (Guest)

So life after loss is here to help everyone learn how to honor their own grief.

01:21

Right, because a lot of times we, when we're kind of thrown into this world of grief, we're thrown into a world that consists of a lot of unknown.

01:29

So when I work with people, I really stand beside them in this forest of nothing but unknown and darkness and really walk alongside them through all of this these different emotions and thoughts and different experiences that may be scary to face alone, but with the guidance of someone else that has been able to survive her own grief, is able to kind of hold your hand through those more challenging times. So really, what I am here to do is just simply educate people number one on what grief is and what grief is not, as well as help you to understand that what you're feeling is right. Right, because we think that, well, it's already been this much time, why am I still feeling like this, or why is this happening, or why am I thinking like this? Like again, when we learn to silence the white noise that lives outside of us, that tells us everything we should and shouldn't be doing, then we actually give space and room to listen to ourselves and what our process is calling for, and we're excited to have you here.

02:38 - Damaris (Host)

Welcome, Lindsay.

02:39 - Lindsay (Guest)

Thank you so much, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be with you guys here just sharing in this space that I honestly think it's just phenomenal the fact that we can connect now so easily in a way that before, like you, had to plan way in advance of like when can we meet up, and now it's like we're here.

02:59 - Nachi (Host)

Right anytime anywhere.

03:01 - Damaris (Host)

So exciting so exciting and obviously, with this topic, this is something that, of course, you came first to mind and and this is the the subject of grief is something that is near and dear to both of us. For very similar reasons, we both all of us have lost a parent. My sister and I. We lost our father two years ago, and you lost your mom. What over ten years ago now, or yeah, I love in years.

03:27

It's almost 12 actually. Oh, my goodness right. So two tremendous levels of losses and and I think for me, not having experienced such a close person in my life to that degree like my father, you know, obviously I lost some extent. You know extended family members like an aunt and uncle, and that was difficult, right, but my father, the parent, that was something that I couldn't really imagine and and after going through that, it forced me to reflect on how I was to other people during their loss, during their time so it's.

04:07

It's been a very transformative and kind of definitely enlightened period for myself the last two years. I think is the same for my sister, but I'll let her speak for herself. So I kind of wanted to just kick off with in your experience, how is grief defined? What is it?

04:26 - Lindsay (Guest)

yeah.

04:27

So it's interesting because usually when I'm talking anything related to death, to loss, to grief and all the things, I usually like to get people's perspective of what they think. Grief is right, because grief can mean so many different things to so many different people, based on their backgrounds or cultures, just the norm that they were raised in, how they view the world. And when I've asked people this very simple question, a lot of times what I get from them is grief is sadness. Grief is related to the tears that come after a loved one dies, right, and while that can usually be the general idea of what grief looks like, grief is actually much more simpler than that as it's defined, because grief is just the normal reaction to the loss. Literally, it is not, it's just an umbrella, it is just a reaction to loss. It doesn't tell us that it's related to sadness, to anger, to frustration, to the. It doesn't tell us what specific reactions, it just says it's a normal reaction to the loss.

05:39

And I think that a lot of times it's easy to confuse mourning with grieving, right, because they're so interconnected.

05:46

Where it's like, when we think of mourning, it's the external expression of grief, so that's where you see the tears, that's where you see the anger, that's where you see the sadness and all the other things. And then grieving it's more the internal process of what's going on mentally, as far as your thought process, as far as your emotional state and all the things. So when people actually like hear that grief is really just a reaction to death, to the loss you know, like a lot of times they're surprised because they're like wait, what do you mean? Like it's really that like broad, where it's like, yeah, grief is like pictured as one big umbrella and everyone is allowed to have their own color, colorful umbrella. So your umbrella can be red, mine can be yellow, yours can be blue, and under that umbrella can come so many different elements that only you're able to experience. Right, we can all share similarities, but that doesn't mean that my experience and your experience are gonna look completely identical.

06:44 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, no, I totally agree and I can definitely relate to that because, you know, whenever I thought of grief, like I felt, like I was in you know, a grieving process when my you know and Boppy had his first stroke and there were just changes with him, that he was no longer the person that he was before and it was like this I couldn't even explain it, because it was it was different.

07:16

It was just like, oh my god, he's not the same person. And it was really this feeling of I lost who my father was, who you know, who he represented to us, like he was. You know, the go-to person that he. You know, if I had a question, he was the one I was gonna go and ask. You know, if I needed something, he was the person that I would go ask. And that dynamic changed. Where I had to be you know the marriage, you know and mommy and I had to be there for him in a way that we didn't have to before, and I think we all were experiencing some level of grief and I felt like that, that's you know really where that process or it was just a different level.

08:04

So it just you know things would change.

08:07 - Lindsay (Guest)

So every time that you know he got sicker and sicker, it was just a different, you know like, oh, we had to take him to another living facility, okay, now a sister living facility, so now that's a different, you know different area for us to navigate, and so you know so, whenever I think of grief, that's what I think about, think about like the loss of what was normal, right, right, and so it's interesting that you, you said that that it is more than just the sadness, and you know, of losing someone specifically, but it's just like this very general description of a loss, of how you feel, from whatever loss you, you, you're experiencing exactly and, as you said, it can be a loss related to death, but it's not always the case because, like you said, it can be that loss of norm, that loss of the person you used to know, the loss of, like the dynamics of a relationship where, like you know, especially when it's from like parents, a child, when those dynamics shifts because of illness, and then you're having to kind of take that caregiver role, like, yes, you absolutely grieve, like this was dad, like this was the person that I would go to for, for comfort, for support and all the things, and now that's shifting and and a lot of times when we experience that with our loved ones that are still here, we're like, but what's going on?

09:38

they're still here, right, yeah, yeah but yeah, they're different part of them is gone yeah they're here, basically, but a part of them is gone yeah, yeah.

09:49 - Damaris (Host)

What a tweet that stayed with me. That that I came across probably a year ago, so it talked about it said this what is grief but love persevering? And that that I felt that's so much I was like, yes, that's what this is for me.

10:06

I I'm grieving because I still love him right, yeah it's like I still love that person and so it's just like, just think about you. I'm like, oh, yes, that's what is it for. Love persevering is that simple. It can be that simple, right, or it's just, but it's it's like, yeah, that's just. You know that. That. That that hit for me and I loved it. I was like, yeah, it was a positive, I'd say a positive kind of spin on grief always being associated with sadness and you know, and loss, because that's what it is.

10:43

You so succinctly described it, but it was just nice to kind of spin it in a positive way, like, yeah, it is a loss, but it is also your love persevering.

10:54 - Lindsay (Guest)

Exactly because we think that when, let's say, when we talk about loss as it relates to the death of a loved one, we think that after they die, that's it. The love and the connection disappear, right, that no longer exists. When that is not the case, we're not programmed like this. We don't just detach and say like okay, the person's gone. Let me just, you know, kind of carry on.

11:15

Where that's not the case, and you know, and this is where really we see the grief manifesting in so many different forms, just because, like, the love just doesn't go away, like it doesn't matter how many years they're gone, Like that is always going to be your person, that is always going to be someone that you shared a big part of your life with, that's always going to be someone that you looked up to and you know that represented so many different things. So like, like I even think about back in the 1900s, when Sigmund Freud the psychiatrist, was kind of like the first mental health professionals to kind of explore grief, and what he described as normal grief right, was the fact that we were able to eventually detach from our loved one and just move on. And I couldn't like think of something farther from the truth, just because I'm just like, like, who are you talking about?

12:08 - Nachi (Host)

Right.

12:09 - Lindsay (Guest)

It's actually able to detach from their loved one.

12:12 - Damaris (Host)

You're like halfway.

12:13 - Lindsay (Guest)

Like again, we all breathe differently and we act differently to different losses. Right, Some losses may not affect us and others will. But at the end of the day, like you can't expect it to be like this, just one universal answer of like, oh no, once you get attached, that's it. Like that doesn't happen.

12:29 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, and it's funny because you know, you hear a lot of people say oh, you know, when someone passes, I think about them every single day. There's not a day that goes by. And it's so funny, it is true, because there's always something that will remind me of FOPPY, or you know, there's a song or something that someone did, or you know it it's. He is on my mind every day and I used to always think like I don't think they're telling the truth. Oh, my goodness.

13:01 - Damaris (Host)

So, nachi, I thought the same thing too. This is why we're sisters. I was like I don't believe you.

13:05 - Lindsay (Guest)

I don't believe you.

13:06 - Nachi (Host)

You need more people.

13:08 - Damaris (Host)

You telling me that you think about this dead person every day.

13:13 - Nachi (Host)

I don't believe you.

13:14 - Damaris (Host)

I don't believe you Because you need more people but and then and then I learned my lesson.

13:19 - Lindsay (Guest)

Right, Then Papi died and all were like oh, oh, there's nothing like an experience to teach us, right. Oh, we say, oh, oh, I do Okay.

13:29 - Damaris (Host)

Okay, I ask, thought I ask house.

13:31 - Lindsay (Guest)

What people are talking about. Yeah.

13:35 - Nachi (Host)

But it was almost like what do you think about? Like you? You, I mean, you're busy. I know I'm thinking like I'm working, I got kids Right. I don't think I'll be thinking about someone every single day, but it's true, you know, they come up in so many different forms and I guess that's where the wave of you know, the way you express your grief and you know sometimes I, you know I have a moment where I'm just boo-hooing and. I'm in my car driving Right For no apparent reason.

14:13

You know, for me to cry at that moment, but it's just like that wave just takes over and it's just like I know.

14:25 - Lindsay (Guest)

But you know, there, there, it takes so much I feel like courage and compassion towards yourself to actually allow yourself that moment to simply, if it's calling for you to burst out in tears, to simply do it. There's so many times we judge ourselves right. It's like why are you crying Like, why are you crying Like this? And it can become so critical and almost scare ourselves from actually feeling or having whatever emotional experience we're trying to have. And like, what happens with that is that then we start mounting it inside, then it starts building up and then all of a sudden again, when you continue having these moments more kind of closely together, you start kind of wondering well, why am I feeling like this? Well, honey, we're not going to be like this. Well, honey, when was the last time?

15:12

you gave yourself permission to feed, because why do we need?

15:15

any immediate reason right To feel our feelings Like. The other day, I was like I mentioned even on my Instagram page, I was having kind of like a brief year day, and I've noticed that, for me, whenever I'm having any kind of like bad day, like it doesn't matter what it's about. Like I related to my mom, like if my mom was here, you know, and it that's the thing of like taking me to the hospital, like taking them like as a part of our lives. We're like they're always there, even when we're not intentionally trying to put them there, right, and it was just like allowing myself, like it doesn't matter what I'm sad about, like I didn't say I'm sad and that's that.

15:51 - Nachi (Host)

That's that there's no explanation. We don't need an explanation. I'm telling you like.

15:56 - Damaris (Host)

I'm going to be throughout this episode. I'm going to plug Lindsay life after loss and her services because she, even though it was free for me because I was her mentor for I am her mentor, not was, let's be clear and her mentor for 15 plus years, 15 plus years. We don't even got to put a date on that, Thank you.

16:19 - Nachi (Host)

Plus, we don't got to be exact with this, but I don't want to hate her so it doesn't matter, because I was like 10 and yes and we.

16:27 - Damaris (Host)

I started to Right At 15. More years, yeah.

16:33

We're talking about 25 jealousy, okay, so no, but she, lizzie, was so instrumental for me or, and it continues to be because she, whenever we would talk and you just recently have moved back to New York City you were previously in Hong Kong for the last couple years and we would have our FaceTime calls and we were really good about scheduling them. And every time like sometimes you know you would you would pick up on my energy and you and you would ask me like what's wrong with the matter? And I'd be like nothing, and then it's like two seconds later I'm like right, and she's fine, she's fine. Like she just knew how to get it out. She just gave me the space. I definitely did not feel judged, if anything, I was beating myself up. But, like she just mentioned, I didn't give myself compassion because I'm like what the fuck am I crying about? Like just get over, not get over it. But just like I'm talking to Lindsay, like why am I crying now? When I'm talking to her, like this is our time, not my time to be crying.

17:32

But it is what it is right, and I wouldn't do that with probably anyone else other than Lindsay and you, nachi, because I just don't feel that space, or that you know that, that safe space, to do that, and so that that says a lot about Lindsay the person. Yes, she's. Great. Praise God, amen.

17:53 - Lindsay (Guest)

Thank you I love a clap. I love it.

17:56 - Damaris (Host)

Thank you, I couldn't wait to use that little sound by it. Yeah, hello, to me that is again speaks to the whole. There isn't a one-size-fits-all to grief and to your point, nachi, it does come out, sometimes randomly. And then sometimes I'm not grieving, I'm really happy. I'm like, oh, I think about the funny memories, the good stuff, the happy moments, and I'm like, oh, those are good, I'm so grateful for that, and sometimes they're happy tears, but it's still an emotional reaction.

18:28

And yeah, and I think my biggest thing is knowing that there's not necessarily an end in sight. And one of the probably most best pieces of advice I received it was from Natasha. She's like for those of you that don't know, this is one of my best friends. She told me she was like she lost her father too when she was much younger and she said you don't get over it, you just get used to it. You get used to the loss. You don't get over the loss, but you get used to it and I'm like, ok, and I get that. There's times when I'm kind of used to it.

19:08

And then other times I'm just like but those times where I'm breaking down, they're growing farther apart, and I think that's just more so because I'm getting used to it. And then I'm coping with it other ways. So it's less of being reactive in that way, which is and again, it's nothing wrong with that, but I just, I definitely that I can have me talk about Poppy and I didn't start crying.

19:35 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, yeah, and it didn't matter what it was. I know I'll start talking, and just the mention of him and whatever the conversation is about, I start tearing up in the waterfall, waterworks starts to go, but that has gotten better in terms, and not that I'm suppressing it, but it's more like getting used to it and accepting what is and he's present in other ways. So it's just accepting that and knowing that has definitely helped in that process.

20:19 - Lindsay (Guest)

Absolutely. And it's also understanding that there's not going to be a day where this is not going to be real for us all, because a lot of times to say, well, it's been five years, well, it's been 10 years, well, it could be a thousand years, but does that change the reality? That changes the reality and, de Maris, it's like your friend Natasha said, you get used to it and in combination with getting used to it, you also get through it, because there will be times that, yes, you can become a little bit more familiar with the certain reactions that come up for you specifically, but it doesn't take away from the difficulty that sometimes it can come up with it, because sometimes we think that, oh, the only thing going on in your life is the grief. Or it's like, no, heaven forbid, you're working, haven't you got a relationship? You got a family, you got other kind of relationships? Where things happen in those areas, like we don't oftentimes have that space to just grief one thing, right, right, Like we can be struggling with so many different things. And it's like again, where do we go, right or left?

21:28

And it's just understanding that, through it all, no matter how intense things get, that we all do have the capability to get through it, it's not getting over it. Because the one thing that I do want to clarify here when we think about getting over things, I know that we're taught. For instance, when you break up with a boyfriend or a girlfriend, whatever, when you lose a job, it's like it's going to be OK, you can find another job, you can find another partner, just get over it, right. Those things can apply to those kinds of situations. Fine, like yes, you can get something better and then you live on. However, for death there is no replacement. You cannot tell a person to get over a death, because in order to get over a death, it would almost have to unhappen. You would have to kind of retract to what just happened and it's like OK.

22:21

I'm over it, my father, my mother's back, like it's OK now. So, and again, when we think of the get over mentality, we're approaching it from the very problematic standpoint that this is an issue, that your reaction is an issue when it's like baby. The reason I'm having this reaction is because my person died and, like just recently, I actually saw this video where this woman was describing what people sometimes demand of grievers, which is it's the same thing as you watching someone getting to a very bad car accident. You're seeing them kind of physically injured and in pain and you telling them oh, come on, get over it, just stop. It didn't happen, it's fine. That's what you do to someone's grieving. They're bleeding.

23:08 - Damaris (Host)

That's what she does, that's what her kids she says get over it, stop crying. It's not.

23:13 - Nachi (Host)

I did not. I did not.

23:16 - Damaris (Host)

That's another topic, guys, conscious parenting, my poor babies.

23:22 - Nachi (Host)

Brush it off, brush it off.

23:23 - Damaris (Host)

You'll be all right.

23:24 - Lindsay (Guest)

No.

23:26 - Damaris (Host)

But you're absolutely right. Yeah, it's insensitive.

23:31 - Lindsay (Guest)

Absolutely. It's insensitive and it just shows the discomfort and the discomfort and the ignorance that, just as a collective, we have when it comes to trying to comfort people that are grieving. Because the thing is, yes, we have been taught so many times when you see someone sad, you have to console them, you have to help them cheer up, you have to help them feel better. But, guys, there's no feeling better at times for people that have just faced a life-changing event like death, like it's not your job to help them feel, like anything.

24:06 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, and I think that's where people get confused with they're uncomfortable number one that you're sad and you're dealing with this tragic event and you don't know what to say or what to do. So you're like well, let me see if I can cheer them up and make them feel better.

24:30 - Damaris (Host)

Especially if you're that type of person that's like a problem solver, that you feel like you always have to solve someone's problems. They're probably the worst offenders.

24:38 - Lindsay (Guest)

Oh, absolutely, yeah, Absolutely, and I know we all been guilty. Now let's not point the finger. No, no, no.

24:45 - Damaris (Host)

Like I said, until I lost a parent, until I lost Bobby, I didn't realize. I obviously didn't realize that I was probably not clearly present the way I should have been for people that lost their own parent or just had a very major loss in their life. And and it took me back to you where I'm like I remember thinking like, was I there properly for Lindsay? And then I'm like I think about Natasha. I'm like why, about when Natasha lost her father, was I, you know, did I do enough? And I probably didn't. I'm pretty sure I didn't, because I just didn't even know how to really be there. And and I think what would be great is to kind of talk about, from your experience, Lindsay and working with others and personally how and I think you did have like a recent webinar, I'm not mistaken about how to be there for someone in the grieving process how absolutely you know, how do you, how do you do that? And really, be there.

25:45 - Lindsay (Guest)

Yeah, so I actually. I had a workshop over the summer on specifically learning how to support a loved one who is grieving the loss of a loved one, and I'm actually going to be soon launching a pre-recorded session so that anywhere around the world can you know, take advantage, because this is something that we need to talk about. There's a lot of times we will find online, especially in social media, are these lengthy lists of the thousand and one things that you should not do or say to a believer right? And let me tell you, even from my perspective of like being in my shoes of the grieving person, like, even for me, it's intimidating to try to comfort someone based on these list, because I'm like you know what here?

26:30

it's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, right if you say something and you say it wrong, then it's like, why would you say that? But then if you don't say anything, why wouldn't you say anything? You know. So it can be so scary to like even try to figure out what do I say to this person. And I think the general idea of just understanding how to support someone is to understand that no two people are going to require the same level of support. What may be helpful for you may not be helpful for the next person, right, right, a lot of times we think like, oh, like I'm just gonna do this because I know that this would be helpful if someone did it for me. We're like, yeah, that's a nice idea, but no, so what I oftentimes tell people is like, listen, have the conversation.

27:15

I know that we don't like to come off as like not knowing or asking perhaps quote-unquote dumb questions, but when it comes to trying to support someone, there are no dumb questions, right, so it's asking specific, tangible questions of like you know, if someone you're trying to support, someone who perhaps has pets listen, I know, right now you have a lot on your plate.

27:38

Can I help with you? Know, kind of taking your dog on a walk, would you like for me to order you like a meal, service delivery for X amount of time, like kind of these tangible things that you feel you yourself can actually offer the person, without necessarily assuming or invading perhaps their space, right where it's like, and it's also being honest with yourself and with them and saying, listen, I want to support you, but I don't know what you need right now. Right, so it's just having that human interaction of just like expressing that you want to be there but you just don't know how to and it's gonna take some time and some questions and evaluation. And also, like, try to stay away from like the platitudes. Stop with the it's better, stop with the time heals all. Stop with other in a better place. Stop, you know, like this is not stop time for it actually even though it seems like it's it should be.

28:41 - Damaris (Host)

It's just not the time for it. Nobody was here that they're in a better place.

28:44 - Lindsay (Guest)

No, the better place is here with me and when I tell people, when you don't know what to say, I rather you say there are no words and just give me a hug, right?

28:55 - Damaris (Host)

yeah, that's, that's perfect, really good.

29:00 - Nachi (Host)

I like what you just said, where you know, giving them tangible things to, to ask and do. It made me think about you know, after giving birth. I always hate it when people like, oh, let me know if there's anything I can do for you, I don't know what you can do right and I don't know what you're willing to do.

29:28

So I mean, I have a long list, so and I never thought of that in terms of someone losing a loved one. You know to even ask like, oh, maybe you know can I help you with, you know, getting food. I know, you know a lot of people may be coming to your home or whatever the case may be, I don't want you to worry about cooking. Let me send some food over. Or maybe, if you know you live in the same location, maybe I can come over and help clean. You know things like that. I think that's great. I don't think I've ever thought of that. You know, to even offer to someone who has lost a loved one, and so that makes a whole lot of sense to me because, again, I know how it felt when.

30:21

I gave birth and it was just like I have a lot of shit and I'm overwhelmed, I'm stressed baby.

30:27 - Damaris (Host)

I know when I would go over there would just take naps with the baby.

30:31 - Nachi (Host)

That was right.

30:33 - Damaris (Host)

I was very helpful. This is what I'm talking about.

30:36 - Lindsay (Guest)

I'm honored to be an aunt, but guess what this?

30:39 - Damaris (Host)

this is what this is the I never, I never said is there anything I could do for you?

30:43 - Nachi (Host)

I know, you know you're welcome. I'm here. I have this perfect picture of the Maris and Madeline taking a nap baby's gonna get your rest.

30:59 - Lindsay (Guest)

Both babies will get your rest.

31:01 - Nachi (Host)

That was what she was there for, and she was very clear about that. I was really good about it, I'll sit here and take a nap with her. Yeah, but yeah, I, you know. Again, it would have been help of someone was to say you know, can I come over there and cook for you guys or, you know, maybe do laundry or clean, whatever? Tell me what you can do for me, because I have a long list.

31:34 - Lindsay (Guest)

And I was going to say I love that you said that, nachi the fact that you know I don't know what you're able to offer. Because what I also tell people is that before opening your mouth and offering, you also need to first check in with yourself. Right, Because you may not necessarily be in the capacity to offer support. Right, you know, there are obviously ways that you can let that be known and still be in the person's life. You know, but when you want the offer support, you have to check in with yourself. Okay, financially, am I able to give any kind of financial help to this person? If not, am I able to give any physical help of me actually cleaning or ordering or doing, you know, these errands for them? Or making phone calls Like, what can I do? That I feel like would not be so taxing on me Because I still have to function as a human being.

32:24 - Nachi (Host)

Absolutely. Yeah, those are good points.

32:28 - Damaris (Host)

I have a question for those of us that are grieving, because I think about you know, just thinking about what you just said not to like, oh, it'd be great if someone could have asked, oh, do you need some food? Like, what kind of food do you want? And we did get that. Actually, my husband's company, they pulled together money and they ordered food for us. Like we were able to do like, yeah, when we were in Florida and I think, yeah, you had already gone back, but we were able to order from, like, rubhub or whatever I think they have in Florida.

33:02

And so we were able to order food, which is nice. None of us had to worry about like cooking or whatever, while we're dealing with trying to get Bobby's stuff in order because he just passed away. So I think about that and then, coming back at the start of the pandemic, it that was like non-existent for us because, you know, once we came back here, it's just like no, I can't see, I can't even grieve with my family members and friends. Like that was probably one of the hardest things I had to deal with.

33:37

I was like this is. I'm in a bizarre world right now. What is happening? I just lost this man in my life who's so important, and I can't even grieve properly with the people that I love and the people that I know loved him. I mean, thankfully, we were able to have a memorial service a year and a half later, because he deserved his flowers and more, and it was a party y'all, it was a party.

33:57

It wasn't that sad, because that's how he was, but I would love to hear your thoughts on coping mechanisms, like how does one, what are things that they can do to get through periods in their life when they're dealing with you know, any kind of grief?

34:16 - Lindsay (Guest)

I think you said it so beautifully of the fact that you know, regardless of the fact that you did have to wait a year and a half, like, you still made it a point to say like no, this man is getting a memorial service and it is going to be a party, a reflection of how he was when he was here. Right, because, like as we mentioned before, just because their bodies leave us does not mean that their essence does, does not mean that their love all of a sudden disappears in the connection, right? So a lot of times, what I tell people is like to really take their time with exploring what helped them feel connected to their loved ones, what helped them remember their essence and what helped them feel comforted. Right, and that looks differently for everyone, right. So, like, for instance, when there's like a birthday and anniversary or any kind of significant date, it's like how can we include them? I'll give you an example for my brother. When he got married in 2011, actually, a few months after my mom died, you know, it was really important for him to make sure that my mom was there, even though she wasn't Right. So something simple that he did was he had in where we were all sitting in different tables in the reception, he had an empty chair with her picture on the table. You know, and it's interesting because none of us knew that he did that until we got there. And I swear to you, like, the minute I saw that I was like, why are you going to do that to me? Right? Right, you know, and it was such a like, simple but profound gesture where we all felt her. You could not. It didn't matter that people that were there maybe didn't know her, like you felt her.

36:06

Yeah, you know, and it's really about like, how do you want to keep this connection alive, you know, is it through pictures, is it through rituals, is it through foods, is it through movies, music, like they're everywhere. We just have to be willing and able to tap into that. Right, and like, like, when you said the marriage, that grieving during this COVID, during this COVID pandemic, was even more isolating, because grief in itself is already an isolated experience. Right, like, we all agree differently, but there's just times where, especially when you're in the brutes of it, you just feel like this is just me on my own. And when you add the layer of like this, you know, isolation due to the pandemic. You just really feel like no, like this is not life. Yeah, you know, and it's important, and I know a lot of people that gatherings through zoom, like you know, when they weren't able to tend to funerals, the memorials through zoom and all those things, and while like, yes, they don't replace, right, the in person kinds of things, like it is still something.

37:11 - Damaris (Host)

No, it's true, and I remember people doing that and reading that, and that just wasn't even an option for Nachi and me, and again not to take away from anyone who did do that, because for some they just had to write and it was important that it happened that immediate.

37:26 - Nachi (Host)

But for me.

37:27 - Damaris (Host)

I was just like no, I was like my father's not a computer, but like to say no, like I mean, he's more than a zoom For us. This is how we felt. I was like no, this is I mean. We weren't even like real Dominicans in the system. We didn't do no or a Santa for him.

37:44 - Nachi (Host)

Right Like you know.

37:46 - Damaris (Host)

For those of you that may not be familiar, this is where you know people get together and pray the rosary like 50 million times and Spanish nine days and.

37:58

After the person passes and it's just like a. I wasn't in a place to really coordinate that and be I just. While my father was religious and a very spiritual person, I just didn't feel called to do that and but we were compelled by the time Things were getting a little bit easier to to do things in larger groups during the pandemic. The it was, it was great to do. We knew that we wanted to celebrate. However that looked, it just needed to be a celebration and that was. And what we realized at least for me I realized was that it was less about closure for my sister and my mom and I, because we did have a very mini ceremony when my father first passed, like we went to the church, they blessed the year, and then it was just like, just like the six of us and we went to the cemetery to Take his earn there, and so we had a bit of a closure.

39:02

You know we had closure in essence, but everyone else that knew him Didn't because they were part of that, that was that was like may, maybe a couple months after his passing, whereas 18 months later, when we did do the memorial celebration and we invited, you know, everyone and those that could make it, it was like it was very emotional for a lot of other people. I was, I was touched because I didn't realize, I didn't recognize that, oh, this needed to happen so that they could have their closure too.

39:31 - Lindsay (Guest)

Right. Right, because so many people were robbed of that. Yes, yes. Oh, we're not able to say goodbye or even see their loved ones and, and I mean, I'm telling you like I, like I said, grief is Complicated and messy, it's layered, and when you add this, not even being able to see your loved one. For the last time, telling you this is a whole different layer and it's very kind of Resemblance of trauma, because this is for a lot of dramatic.

40:02

Yeah, you need to be able to see things in, accept or even realize that it's actually happening, because then in your mind it just feels like an illusion, like a dream like a nightmare.

40:15 - Nachi (Host)

No, I know those those couple of months after he passed and Demention, I was like, okay, we're, we're gonna, you know, pull the trigger here and do it, because we kept waiting for, for some clearance of, okay, well, we can try to have a ceremony with you know a number of people, but it was becoming less and less an option and I remember feeling at that time like he needs to be put to rest, like I feel like he's not resting.

40:47 - Damaris (Host)

I feel like, you know, he's just in the, you know, just in the air limbo because His ashes were just in the, at the funeral home, but again, we were on pause, so to speak, and, and this is in New York City. So New York City, I mean, it was like by the time, you know, after March, it was like, oh, a gathering of ten, max, or something. My father was that just was not going to be possible.

41:14 - Nachi (Host)

Not at all just not.

41:16 - Damaris (Host)

It just wasn't so in the height of the pandemic, it just didn't make sense to do something on a small scale. That was just not gonna be possible to do a small scale.

41:26 - Lindsay (Guest)

Right and it's really about honestly honoring what you feel in your being is true, because a lot of times, like people really get caught up in the mix of like, well, I want to do this, but this other person wants to do that or this other.

41:40 - Damaris (Host)

So they have to, because this is the way it's supposed to be done.

41:43 - Lindsay (Guest)

Right, we're like honey boo. This is your person too, right, like with your guts. If your insights are telling you, do this. That is what you need to be doing, and I've learned to be very unapologetic in my grief. Let me tell you people be like. You're so sad. No, I'm not sassy, I just know what it is gonna be. Baby, you're not about to tell me what I'm To my mother like. It's funny because even before I became familiar with this world of like grief, I remember the day my mom actually died and my aunt telling me well, your mom, you know she probably needs to be buried in DR and all the things that's cute, but no, no, that's not happening. Like Homegirls gonna be here in New York. I feel like in our culture.

42:41 - Nachi (Host)

It's kind of.

42:42 - Lindsay (Guest)

I don't know about you guys, but it's kind of like the tradition that your parents just go back to the motherland where it's like, okay, how many times do you actually visit?

42:54 - Nachi (Host)

No, I know I think about my grandmother she was buried in the are like yeah, she died.

42:58 - Lindsay (Guest)

and who goes to the Families up here and if she were, we would actually visit her and that's what I tell people when it comes to coping and understanding your process, you need to be okay with other people, not being okay with what you do.

43:17 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, to get to that point like when we so we're not. She and I decided okay, we can't have a ceremony, we can't have a ceremony, we're just gonna have to go to the priest, the six of us. Yeah half his ashes blessed, mm-hmm. Then take it over to the the cemetery, have a little you know moment prayer and have him in case glass and Leave him resting and honestly, I felt like we felt so much better because he wasn't sitting in a room with a bunch of other Dead people like his ashes were like.

43:51

It was where he wanted to be.

43:54 - Nachi (Host)

I'm telling you, I think I had dreams of him.

43:56 - Damaris (Host)

You know, I remember you and I talked, beat up.

43:59 - Nachi (Host)

Yes, we were like Sad. No, he had sad things, like he was coming to my dream like bitch.

44:10 - Damaris (Host)

If y'all don't get me out of here, but we also didn't care about what other people felt and thankfully, our family, our extended family, were very respectful throughout the whole time. No one, ever they were. Demanded or expected that we have an or a Santa, or that we um, you know that we, we have a mini ceremony, even though, like you know, we could know we're not one person, and thank God, because they probably would not have like any kind of reaction we would have given them.

44:36 - Nachi (Host)

But they're certainly in that state, yeah but also knowing who my father was.

44:42 - Damaris (Host)

Like yeah, like if you know you've, you knew him, then you know that he'd be like. Yeah, no, we're gonna move to my cemetery. I got my spot already. Case that out 25 years ago, let's move it. I don't want to be here anymore. I love high water, and so we love it. I love those memories and. I'm so happy them. We had the party and it was great yeah about, about that celebration.

45:07 - Nachi (Host)

I felt like it was a great cat we can like.

45:11 - Damaris (Host)

I wish you wish you were there, Lindsay, but you went on, yes he would have loved this.

45:16 - Nachi (Host)

I just felt like his presence. I felt like, oh, I know he's happy that we yeah, we did this and that family and friends were able to, and Although not everyone was able to make it, it was still. You still felt the love. Yeah, and just you know, I loved that people came and shared stories with us. I, it was just it was awesome.

45:41 - Damaris (Host)

It was awesome, it was a great day and the weather couldn't have been more perfect. I'm like Our planner at the time. She was like, oh you know, they might be rain. I said I'm gonna put it out there right now. I was like Bobby creator, Make it a great day. No rain today, I promise you. I said that's why and I know she was on the other end of the phone like Like we got mother nature, mother D here.

46:05 - Lindsay (Guest)

mother D, we're fine, I just asked them.

46:07 - Damaris (Host)

I put in the request, we're good, we're done. And what was it like nachi?

46:12 - Nachi (Host)

It was beautiful, nice and sunny.

46:15 - Damaris (Host)

As I requested.

46:16 - Nachi (Host)

Praise God, and the next day was raining.

46:19 - Damaris (Host)

Yes, my father is Continues to be a highly favorite child of the most high, so I knew, whatever he put in, he was going to get the request fulfilled and he did. Thank you, and here we are. That being said, can you, as we close out, I would love, Lindsay, for you to give our listeners a little bit more information about life after loss.

46:44 - Lindsay (Guest)

So up until recently I was working one to one with people and just really helping them to just be with their grief without feeling like they had to run away from it, right, just learning to be more familiar with it and understand the different elements that were coming up for them. But this is actually going to be the final year for now that I will be offering one to one, because we are elevating into a whole different phase.

47:10 - Nachi (Host)

Praise God, praise God, oh right, yes we are.

47:14 - Lindsay (Guest)

So be on the lookout, because mama is launching a dynamic group program, because I feel like a big element of being able to go through grief is understanding that there is a community that gets it, that there are people that understand it. That's right.

47:31

That there are people that love you through it and that don't judge you or criticize you for a feeling or expressing your grief the way you are. So, really, because community has been coming up for me a lot, I'm just like you know what I feel like this is where my focus needs to be on just bringing this community together, where we can all together talk about grief, learn about grief, normalize grief and, at the end of the day, understand that we're not in this alone, even though it can feel like that.

47:58 - Nachi (Host)

I think that's a wonderful.

47:59 - Damaris (Host)

That's awesome. Oh, I'm so excited. I know I know I'm like this is all from my mentorship with her.

48:05 - Lindsay (Guest)

Thank you.

48:07 - Damaris (Host)

You're welcome, Lindsay.

48:08 - Nachi (Host)

You see how she's so good at back right back.

48:12 - Lindsay (Guest)

I pay her royalties guys.

48:15

No, no but seriously, like the Marist, I know has fluffed me up and said all those things, but honestly, like the Marist has been such a rock for me throughout, like since I was 15, in my teen years, where I didn't know what I was doing but I was truly struggling. At that point I really just didn't feel like I had many people to come fight in and I felt like the Marist was such a rock for me and just helping keep me grounded and help me keep going, because there were so many times where I was just like you know what? This is it, this is where I end, that's it. And somebody's like girl, you're 16. Shut up, you don't know what goes on. I've got a whole life ahead of me.

48:55 - Nachi (Host)

You got time.

48:56 - Lindsay (Guest)

And I'm like no, I've already lived enough to Marist, it's been too long. No, but she's honestly like, she's helped nurture me, she's helped build me up. She's actually like sat with me on the ground when I've had to like fall, and again she just always reminds me of the badass person that I will continue to be, no matter what I go through. And that's what it really is about. It's like owning your authority and realizing that we are going to survive this. How we're going to survive, who the hell knows.

49:25

I mean, I don't know how to survive it this far.

49:27 - Nachi (Host)

I just don't know.

49:28 - Damaris (Host)

Right, you're just doing right, I did not pay her, by the way. I did not pay her, thank you. No, no, I thank you. Don't pay her, by the way, the monster boy, I mean just kidding. Oh, Lindsay, we are so grateful, grateful and thankful to have you on this episode and to be a part of our tribe, because, you know, you are a weird community and beyond just communities, like you're my little sister. Little sister I never asked for because I'm the youngest in my family.

49:54 - Nachi (Host)

There you go, she never asked for you, I never asked for you, but I love you. Such a pain, but I embrace you. And still a pain.

50:01 - Damaris (Host)

Yes, yes, but with that said, we'll close it out and thank you again. Look, I just want to impart these closing words, but grief is a very personal journey and there is no one way to grieve. Give yourself and others compassion in the process and, as always, make the conscious effort of keeping your vibrations high. Thank you for listening and don't forget to subscribe to our channel and follow us on Instagram, tiktok, Twitter, at I'mnotyelling underscore. Thank you.

50:34 - Lindsay (Guest)

Bye, bye, bye.