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Navigating the Complexities of Mental Health Episode Transcript

00:00 - Nachi (Host)

In this episode, we will explore how we can reshape societal perceptions of mental health and create a world where seeking help is seen as a sign of strength and not weakness. Welcome to another episode of I'm Not Yelling, I'm Dominican Podcast. Welcome back everybody. This is your girl, achi, and I'm here with the one and only.

00:32 - Damaris (Host)

The one and only Flaquita de Oro.

00:37 - Nachi (Host)

Just like Papi used to call you. And we are here with a very special guest and our dear cousin Eda Franco.

00:47

So we're just so excited to have you here. When Damaris and I were just thinking about this topic on mental health, you were the first one that came to mind, of course, because of your background, but also your spiritual background and path you've taken. I think it's just like a unique perspective that you have and you can bring to the conversation. So we're happy to have you here and we would like you to share a little bit about yourself for those who don't know you. Of course we know you. We've known you forever, forever more, all your life. Hello, cousins.

01:23 - Damaris (Host)

It's so good to be here.

01:25 - Eda (Host)

Thank you, I'm humbled by your invitation to come and share with you today a little bit about mental health, and it's such a vast topic, so many avenues we can go through in that, and so hopefully we'll get like an overview today and, you know, hopefully read some people and get some help, cause that's at the end of the day.

01:47

That's the goal is that to get people connected to what they need. And so what is my background? Well, I, like I'm a social worker. I've been a social worker since about age five, and I tell you that you know our family migrated my family migrated from DR.

02:06 - Nachi (Host)

Right, and you might, you may not know this.

02:08 - Eda (Host)

I don't know if I ever share this with you, but I remember and I recall and I have memories of going into social services or going to job things or going being the translator because I spoke English and so I acted as a translator and I really believe that that nurturing allowed that social work seed to be planted. And so in 89, after I got out of college, I landed a role at the Bronx addiction treatment center where I was a substance abuse counselor and from there I shifted like 10 years. I was like there has to be more and so I got interested in social work school, wanted to formalize my education and went to Hunter and that allowed me to make a transfer to the Bronx psychiatric center where I was not as a patient, and trained Not as a patient.

03:05

You know, we see that that's the kind of thing we're going to talk about today. That's a stigma right there, See.

03:13 - Damaris (Host)

But but you know, this is family. You know, that's how we talk, that's how we talk and we do you know we take that lightly, we just play it.

03:20 - Eda (Host)

But, thank you for that example.

03:22 - Damaris (Host)

But anyway as.

03:22 - Eda (Host)

I went over there, I got really a unique opportunity to marry substance abuse and psychiatry because at that time, believe it or not, there were two different spaces. The two spaces were not connected because substance abuse did not know what to do with psych psychiatry and psychiatry didn't want to deal with people with substance abuse. But now, today, we have a behavioral health system. So it was I've been privileged to see the evolution of it. Being married, you know the two things, and from there I've had like numerous jobs. You know I always work. You know, come on.

04:05

I have 14 jobs, always had an administrative job because I love the administrative work, and I also had a side job doing clinical work, working with clients and outpatient settings and halfway houses and you know different settings to maintain that connection with the clinical work because I knew that one day I would want to get back to it, you know.

04:30

But I've also had rich experiences as an administrator, working for some of the largest social service agencies, but I've always landed in all of those paths. Mental health has been the impact, has been the area of focus, and so I've gained a lot of experience and knowledge and I will say expertise in mental health and being able to help people identify with substance abuse, Help people identify it, get comfortable with it, get the treatment that they need and keep it moving. People with mental health, they can live. They can live a rich life, they live rich life. You'd be surprised who has mental health and you would be like, wow, that person is functioning. And then so you know, I want to get an opportunity to talk a little bit about that today, about understanding mental health as a whole picture, not just as this one thing and the thing that's a side deal that we see on social media we see on the news always perpetrating people with mental health challenges as something evil or wrong with them. You know, right, yeah.

05:40 - Damaris (Host)

First of all, amazing your background deep into the space. So there's no doubt that you, you know you speak from it from a place of experience and expertise. So that's awesome and you know we while I made that joke earlier but at the reality is that we talk about understanding that mental health stigma right and, and how it impacts people individually and you kind of talked about it already about broadly also community. The way I see some of the stigma that for mental health conditions is like unfairly characterizing people as not being fully competent or somehow less than. Can you speak a little bit more about your experience, about what that stigma looks?

06:30 - Eda (Host)

like Sure, absolutely, and that's that's a big ticket item. People have a preconceived notion about what mental health is, not understanding that we all have mental health. It's just matter where it is on the spectrum.

06:47 - Damaris (Host)

Right.

06:48 - Eda (Host)

Some people need low maintenance and some people need high maintenance and everything in between, and so when we approach it as everyone has mental health, then it takes away some of that negativity of it, because it's not just a condition that certain people get. You know, you know, and that's like a whole nother. You know conversation about the different disorders and you know what do you, you know who gets this or you know what are the factors in that. But, generally speaking, we talk about stigma. I like to categorize it in three areas. Where is I look about the public stigma? And I'm referring to what the negative beliefs and and and attitudes that we generally have, and we talked about some of them, right?

07:33

now when you know you believe that everyone that that's mentally ill is violent or they're going to do something. You know that's a notion, you know, and it irks me to know. And when there's some type of mass shooting or there's something catastrophic that happens, with the person taking an action right away oh, we need more mental health services. Well, maybe that may or may not be true, but it's not always the reason. Right? You know, we're not, we're not exploring that enough and we're not.

08:06

We're not hoping to be able to exactly of what the issues are that is driving someone to do that. They may or may not have mental health. You know it could be, but but that's just a public perception, just what as a society we generally have. There's also a structural stigma, and when I'm talking about that, I'm talking about, you know, organizations and institutions. You know when you go to the hospital and you're having a mental health break, you know nine times out of 10 they send you home. You know they don't take the time and do the and, trust me, I was a part of that system for many years and I understand the burden of that. Because you want to be able to, you know you want to treat as many people as you can, but sometimes the volume of people that come in with that you take your risk you like. Okay, this one doesn't look too bad, doesn't sound to be them, so they're going to hurt themselves.

09:08

So, let's send them home and let them go to our patient, wait for an appointment two or three weeks down the line and maybe they can manage. And so you know that's, that's just some of the way. But, like, the other stigma that you see in structure is like when on a job application, they used to have that they, they took it off or something they said you know, like, you know, ask you, or when you're going to interview, they give you the psychological test and to see if they can rule out people.

09:36

Man, that's a stigma You're trying to black out, trying to block out people from applying and I'm telling you, I've worked side by side people with mental health, that serious mental health diagnosis, and trust me, I will rather have an army of them working for me than some of these other people that don't have nothing and they don't get me started.

09:57 - Nachi (Host)

That's a lot of show. They like to pretend they don't have anything right, that's it.

10:08 - Eda (Host)

Yes, but it's like you know just these, these, these, yeah, these policies and things that get created, that put like this invisible barrier for people. And then it's the self stigma, people, what you believe, or if I have mental illness, people are going to be looking at me funny. I can't let nobody know. I have to keep this inside. I can't talk about it. You know this is a secret. I can't tell, I can't talk, you know. You know I didn't say this when I did my introduction. I'm a licensed master's social worker in New York State and I'm also a licensed social worker in PA as well and I'm working towards my clinical hours. Because I was so busy running organization I didn't take the time to take the clinical test and I'm paying for it but it's good everything

10:59

works out for the good. I'm very close to getting that clinical license, but I'm saying that to say is that I've seen a lot, particularly since 2019 to today. I've been in private psychotherapy working with clients under supervision of a clinical social worker, working with people from all ages and when I say all ages, I work with children starting at age five and up to whatever age I think. I don't even remember what my oldest person I've worked with, but the one thing is constant is that they bring most of them a sense of shame or embarrassment that something's wrong with them that something's wrong and like why am I feeling like this?

11:52

why am I thinking like this? Why am I doing these things in this way, you know? And so that self stigma, that self containment, because you're hearing the social stick who wants to come out, say, oh, I'm having mental health problems, when you know they're gonna reject you for the job, who's gonna be willing to do?

12:12 - Damaris (Host)

that Having a mental breakdown, you know just like, yeah, exactly.

12:15 - Nachi (Host)

I think, yeah, even when people want to take a mental health day, they won't say it's a mental health day, which is crazy.

12:22 - Eda (Host)

Right, because they would come up with something else, just so that they can find more Exactly feel that they have to lie or misrepresent the truth, and it's all because of how we embrace it. Now we have all these things now, today, and I have to say, in the 25 plus years that I've been in this field, there have been changes. Yes, a long way to go, but there have been changes. You know, I love when I see these celebrities. They're getting more comfortable and they're making it more mainstream, where people can say, hey, oh, my goodness, they play this or they, they act like this and they have mental health issues and people can.

13:03

That resonates for people, that helps people, and so that we need more of that. We needed to make it more of a conversation without judgment or bias. You know, therefore, the grace of God, go why you don't trust me. You don't know if that will happen to you. That's why and I say this for word, true, I couldn't wait till I pass my 45th birthday. Why was that? Well, because most people have a psychotic break by age 45, wow, really I always wonder that I always wonder by age 45, they're curious, yeah go ahead, go ahead.

13:47 - Nachi (Host)

Natchi, no, I was gonna say that I always found that interesting how people would have these mental breakdowns late in life, and I never, understood why that happened or how did that occurred. Was it like a personal, a trauma event or like how does that happen?

14:09 - Eda (Host)

Well, that's it and that's. I'm gonna tell you what I think and what the literature shows. You know, if you have mental health issues in your family, there's a possibility that you can have them. So now the percentages differs, like on what it is. For example, if your mother and your father both have mental illness, then that is a good possibility that G may get passed on to you, but it won't evolve in the same way. You know, two people with mental health can have a child that doesn't have mental health. That can happen, and so they're still studying this. They really can't say, oh, this and this equals mental health issue.

14:54 - Damaris (Host)

Because there's a probability.

14:57 - Eda (Host)

The probability is greater when there's one, and so you know I'm frank and I'm not ashamed of it. You know, my father had mental health and when I saw my father he used to be like Lord Jesus, keep that thing away from me, because he was like I just don't even. Yeah, he took care of the house, he took care of home, but man, that man had some challenges you know what I'm saying.

15:21

And so I just couldn't even imagine being him in his body, experiencing the symptoms that he was doing and taking care of a family and doing, working and doing all those things and dealing with mental health Right, you know.

15:37 - Damaris (Host)

And to your point when you said that it, even if both parents have, you know, mental health disorders, how it manifests in their child, it's not necessarily the same, and I think that there are external variables that contribute to how that can manifest itself too. That people don't really consider. That, you know, is always this idea of like, well, it's just genetics, and if you know if it runs in your family but sometimes it doesn't even need to run in your family you could just be going through certain things and certain things happening to you that bring it out.

16:12

And I think you're absolutely right about mental health being on a spectrum which, to me, just makes logical sense and, going back to Adam calls me a Vulcan right Like. For me, I'm like two plus two needs to equal four right, and so when I think about mental health and I'm always talking about health, as wealth and health to me applies to mental, emotional, physical, spiritual and mental is one of them there's, you have to work at that, you have to nurture that right Just as much as you would have to nurture those other areas of your life, of your health. Yes, yes.

16:49

It's holistic.

16:50 - Eda (Host)

Yes, it is, and you are on target, and I think that's the point about you know who gets it or who doesn't get in, how you deal with it. The bottom line is there are other factors that can bring on mental health issues. One is drug use. You went to a party, you took a tab or something and you bug out and you may not never come back. Yep.

17:18 - Damaris (Host)

You don't know what was in that, that trick or something Drug induced.

17:20 - Eda (Host)

That's the problem. That's the clinical term. It could be drug induced. It could be trauma induced, you know.

17:28 - Damaris (Host)

You like to get wet?

17:30 - Eda (Host)

You got wet, you got wet and now you can't get it. Ain't no coming back from it and you can't get dry.

17:35 - Nachi (Host)

Never, never, never again.

17:38 - Eda (Host)

And so it's unfortunate. But yes, it's true, and so that's why it's a lot of the studies and things that over time show that there is some connection in Ling and no one knows exactly what makes it open in you you know, set off in you in that moment. But the possibility there and when I say that 45, I say that with a caveat, because I've known people that have been older than 45 and had their first break, and so it's not like it can't happen when you're older. I don't want to give that misinformation.

18:13

It can happen, but it's not, it's less likely, it's the term that I really need to use. So, you know, being able to identify that for yourself like it's just, it's a lot. It's a lot when you look at it from that perspective and understanding that it is all the things that you're talking about. So that's, let's get into that a little bit, because mental health is all of those things. You talk them out. It's, it is your health, it is, you know, your mental, your spiritual, all of those things, and even more than that. Let's bring it even more clearer it's, it's your mood, right, it's your emotions.

18:56

It's your thoughts, it's your behaviors. All of those things are interconnected and have to do with your wellness, with you feeling all right, totally, you know, and a change in any one of those things that. I've mentioned affects the other ones.

19:16 - Damaris (Host)

Like we just did a recording on big food. You know the food industry in this country, which to me I consider-.

19:23 - Eda (Host)

Why? Why wasn't I invited to that show? I like big food.

19:26 - Damaris (Host)

Because let me, let me tell you, let me tell you, we spent two hours on how to break that up into two episodes, and part of that is the discussion around ingredients, right, and why is it so important to understand what we ingest? Because how does it affect us? And some of that is like those ingredients that are pure chemicals, like yellow number five and red 40.

19:51

And what the studies have found, how that can impact, even how some of the kids will get ADHD and things like that. There have been some connections right. There's some study out there. Y'all could Google it, but the point is that we start to consume, that it's putting almost everything that we eat. What do you think? That is an external factor, an environmental factor that contributes to potentially submental, undiline mental illness? You?

20:16 - Nachi (Host)

know it takes in everything you have to consider.

20:18 - Damaris (Host)

I can't approve or disapprove that cuss I'm telling you. But I know what I read.

20:23 - Eda (Host)

A right cuss ain't gonna want to give it to you, but your cuss, don't know about that one.

20:27 - Damaris (Host)

You don't have to. Yes, I'm like. It's a study. I will put it in the notes. I take it where if I believe in it, you know. And.

20:31 - Eda (Host)

I'm gonna Google, I need to find that study, you know, and I want to understand it, because that's how we learn things.

20:37 - Damaris (Host)

There's links. I'm not saying they won't say that it causes, because of course they can't Right, right, it's just they can't say that about anything Connection yeah.

20:46 - Eda (Host)

So listen, listen, I totally believe, because when I'm working with clients with mental health, I'm telling them to look at everything you have to. I asked them about how they this is why the field merge they stop, you know, needing a cocoa tassel about why am I treating substance abuse but you have a psychiatric and I got to send you over there for that? It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. We need to treat the person whole. That's why I always love the bio-psycho social model that I you know that I was trained on in social work is that you look at every aspect of the person, because all of those things have an impact on them. You know their social, their mental, their spiritual. You know every part that has to do with them their emotional, their family, their environment, their home, their neighborhood, their community. All of those are factors and you have to look at how is a person engaging with that.

21:48 - Damaris (Host)

It's holistic. How are they?

21:49 - Eda (Host)

connected Exactly. So I'm with you with that. It's like that's an important factor. But getting back to like mood and emotion and understanding is really important to understand and I like to make the distinction, in particular, about mood and emotions, because I want people to, I want you to get that your, your, your mood is how you feel most of the time. Okay. So when you think about your mood, I want you to think about a day, a week, a month. When I talk about emotions, I want you to look at it as a second, a minute, an hour, okay.

22:41 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah.

22:43 - Eda (Host)

We use those two terms interchangeably and I do it to them guilty of it.

22:48

But they really mean two distinct things. And why is it important? Because this is one of the identifiers when you have mental health. So let's just say, for example and I add this question in the last two weeks, how has your mood been? Can you tell me what your mood has been like? Have you been depressed, have you been sad? Have you been anxious? And out of that, that two week time period, how many days that you have this, this feel? Well, for nearly half the days for the last two weeks, I've been depressed or anxious. That gives me a clue about what's going on with the person. Oh, I've been anxious.

23:31

Maybe one day that gives me a clue, because I want them to be able to interpret and understand that any shift in that is something that requires some attention and you need to pay attention to, because we are so trained to ignore ourselves and keep pressing forward. We ignore ourselves and we keep pressing forward. So go into your point about holistic. You have to understand your mood, you have to understand your emotions and you have to understand that you can have two emotions at the same time. Okay, let me prove my point. So now I'm depressed, because I'm gonna say the most I've been depressed in my life was when my mother passed away. I was in the state then, but my boo balla, you know little things, flowers you know, to look your spirit or cute tags.

24:31

So in that moment remember I said seconds minutes back in that moment. I don't know, isn't that sweet and I will be happy, right, but my mood will come back, you know.

24:46

But eventually you know the mood lifts and I mean it happened naturally. It was grieving, so that was a natural process and you have to understand that that's just a natural way that you will be, you know. And so understanding that distinction about your mental health, in terms of your mental health and managing your mood and your emotions, is important because they affect your thoughts and your behaviors. You see how it's all connected. Now you in bad mood and somebody steps on your toe. You think you're gonna be like oh, that's okay, you're not in the space.

25:26 - Nachi (Host)

So it makes me think about just like in our culture, you know, think about the women and I only refer to women in our family, or just in general, how they always had a mood right, you know, like I would say they would always have a mood.

25:46

But then, if you think about, like all the stuff that they probably were dealing with and didn't know how to navigate, you know those feelings, those you know, not emotions but just dealing with those feelings that they were, yeah, the frustrations that they were having, and I wonder, like, how do, how can you even break through that Like because they passed that down to the next generation of how to deal with their you know, deal with their emotions? And their moods Like how do you break from that? That's just like the most I think the most difficult thing. Like I can speak for myself, Sometimes I catch myself and I'm like, damn, I'm in, okay, I need to do something.

26:33 - Eda (Host)

Snap out of it. Snap out of it, re-sat, re-sat.

26:38 - Nachi (Host)

And you know I've done therapy also, you know when I know that I've been in like you said, in a mood for a long period of time and things are shifting. It was just that. You know I had to make that decision. But I know that a lot of people, a lot of people in my generation, don't think about going to therapy because they, you know, like, oh you gotta be, they gotta be something wrong with you. You're quote, unquote crazy right.

27:05 - Eda (Host)

Yeah, see, that's the guy. Here we go. Here you go again with that stigma. We going back to the stigma. But yeah, but that's meant to health is that's what it is. It's the and I'm gonna use this word because I believe this is what it is is the ignorance.

27:19 - Nachi (Host)

You know? Yes, they don't know.

27:21 - Eda (Host)

They don't know, they don't understand it. You know how many people right now, man, man, I see quite a few clients in a week's time and I'm gonna tell you, half of my clients, about 50% of them, are under 30. Ooh, that is telling. That is telling Under 30, right, and I'm gonna say, about 80% of those come from. I'm gonna say, you know, island nations, not only DRP. I'm talking about Trinidad, I'm talking about Jamaica, I'm talking about, you know, the Caribbean. Yes, you know, I see a client right now that, lord Jesus, I ain't laughing at that, I'm just just the thought of it she sits in her car on her lunch hour to have her therapy session because she can't have it at home.

28:18

You, see what I'm saying yeah, and that's what. So you asking me how you're gonna break it is that you have to make up your mind, right?

28:27

She made up her mind that she was going to come and she was like I can't. The only time I could do it is this time during the week, cause I can use my lunch hour. You have to get to that point and have to get to that point. You have to prioritize it. And it's a personal choice, you know. I hope, if you're listening to me today, you can choose yourself. It's okay to choose you.

28:56

It's not selfish to choose you when you need to replant Cause. How good are you to others if you're not good Ever?

29:06 - Damaris (Host)

You can't give what you don't have. Come on, we say this all the time on the show you can't you trying to, you trying to pour out of a empty picture?

29:14 - Nachi (Host)

Empty cup, yeah.

29:15 - Eda (Host)

Come on now.

29:16 - Damaris (Host)

No, yeah, what I say is it's not selfish, it's self-full, and I am self-full and I can only give what flows over. So if it doesn't flow with over, I cannot give.

29:28 - Nachi (Host)

Right and you have to recognize that within yourself that you know what I'm saying. Like this isn't normal, you being in this state for such a long period of time. It's not normal. Just because life is happening, because we all go through things, doesn't mean that the way you feel, the what you're dealing with at that very moment, is just not. It's not normal. If you feel like it's this is every day, you know two weeks, three weeks, months, you have to take a step back and start thinking about it, houston, we got a problem, and say right, and say to yourself.

30:07

okay, what can I do? I need to do something. I need to talk to someone To figure out what's happening with me.

30:13 - Eda (Host)

Yeah, and I tell you that when I get new clients, that's usually where they are. Like you know, I feel so destroyed, I feel so overwhelmed that I'm having thoughts about hurting myself. I'm seeing myself driving my car off the highway, you know, and this person is living at home, working life every day. Having these, what we call the proper clinical term, is suicidal ideations. You know they don't have a plan, they don't think, well, they almost got a plan because they talking about it driving the car, so that moves it like a little step further.

30:48

Yeah, that is intent right there. Like I'm going to drive. I feel like driving a car off, you know, but it's just like the thought of it, like what is this life? I wish I wasn't here. I wish I didn't exist. You know, I wonder if they would miss me if I wasn't here. I used to think that your car used to think that. Back in the day I said I don't miss them no more Cause.

31:10

good, now had to go to therapy. I went alone. I went to therapy for many, many, many years. I had to work out a lot of things and, you're right, it had a lot of cultural and it was like you know, how did I see my mother process? You know?

31:27 - Damaris (Host)

you know how does it process.

31:29 - Eda (Host)

Exactly, they wasn't taking care of their mental health. You know they were just pushing through and taking care and doing and doing, and doing and doing and doing Not the self care. The self care was the go the uh uh the, uh the blood worry Hello. Go get my head done to the nutrition, like once or twice a month, maybe that. But you know, come on, man.

31:53 - Damaris (Host)

That's true. No, it's not. That ain't enough and that's also not addressing what it is that is causing that, that mental health, you know, condition. At that moment, it's just you have to. For me, it is sitting down and being super introspective, being still not doing, and and it's being cause. We're human beings right and we have again this generational curse within our family and within Dominican culture, there's always some shit to do, there's always a you can't and it's like no wonder y'all like this. It's like I look at mommy and the rest of them like no wonder y'all are like this, because y'all never sit still for one second, because sitting still is, is, is is uh, um there's like a sin to them.

32:42 - Nachi (Host)

It's like a sin Cause you're being lazy.

32:44 - Eda (Host)

I just had a session with a client about that yesterday.

32:47 - Nachi (Host)

No.

32:48 - Eda (Host)

Like so you're going to keep uh running and you feel guilty when you're not doing anything.

32:57 - Damaris (Host)

That's a problem.

32:59 - Eda (Host)

You feel guilty when you're not doing nothing. I had mercy.

33:04 - Damaris (Host)

This is like you got your condition.

33:06 - Eda (Host)

I got over that real quick. Okay, yes, I got over that real quick. I said I can't do it. I can't do it. It's just too much, it's too stressful. This is why our hair fall out, this is why we get um break breakouts, we get all kinds of other symptoms and D. And this is when I talk about mental health. Right, when I said everybody's not at the end where they need hospitalization and there's kind of, but it's the, the daily mental health right. That are what we're managing in our own emotions and our own thinking and our own feelings. How are we managing those things? And we don't. We don't do we didn't have good role models with that. No, because it was like my mother worked from dawn to dusk. From dawn to dusk. Okay, I'm just like, and all I remember and I meant this I said I'm not doing that there's certain things I will not do yes, I don't do.

33:58

You can't get me if I will pay a hundred dollars to sew my shirt. I'm not gonna sew a thing. You ain't gonna never make me sew nothing ever okay, yo, she said, those are fighting words Never.

34:11 - Damaris (Host)

Now I know, don't ask me to sew, no, but no, I'm a trigger, I'm a trigger you so much when I see a person like why don't you go sew this shirt? Listen, I'm talking about with a suit.

34:21 - Eda (Host)

I got a hole in the. Dominique was like just stitching. I'm not stitching that up, I'm not gonna stay just like I'm gonna go buy me another one. That's the actor rebellion right there.

34:29 - Nachi (Host)

No, that's that. And ironing your clothes. Mama used to iron clothes as soon as it come out, I don't need to iron every damn piece of clothes that come out of the loose Baby.

34:40 - Eda (Host)

Let me tell you something. Ask OT OT to tell you I'm the queen of permanent press. Half of my clothes is permanent press. Put it on, girl, and it look good too. I can't, and these things are directly related to you, know. Come on, let me tell you something. Yes, we used to get up at six in the morning on a Saturday. On a Saturday, go to the Malqueta, go to the nine supermarket that she was going to go get all the specials from them. Good Lord, you know. Come back to the house, put the groceries away. Now it's time to clean. Then we gotta clean the house from top to bottom. Everybody had a chore to do, and this is why, when you come to my house, you don't see nothing on the damn table, because my mother has so many damn figurines on that table.

35:34 - Damaris (Host)

Oh, my god, the little chickens, the little chicken things. You know I'm talking about, you know I'm talking about.

35:39 - Eda (Host)

You know I'm talking about, right, the little chicken things and and don't leave one piece of dust because, guess what, you will have to do it again. And so it was like by four or five o'clock on Saturday you were exhausted and then check this out. Then Saturday night everybody come over for dinner, we have a party, yeah. So you have to cook and do and get ready. I was like too much.

36:06 - Nachi (Host)

This is crazy.

36:08 - Eda (Host)

This is, this is what I remember, this is the and. So this is why I understand my own anxiety in my own anxiousness. Right, is because this was the beat. Yes, this was the beat. No, I don't.

36:23 - Nachi (Host)

I don't want to carry that in every you know, in every aspect of your life.

36:28 - Damaris (Host)

But how do we break that, how do we break these things?

36:31 - Eda (Host)

Now you talk and now you talk what we're doing. This is one way right, we're talking about it. Let it open. Yes, everybody has a, has mental health.

36:41

Start the conversation it's okay if you feel overwhelmed, if you start feeling you're not sleeping at night. You're you're, you're having pervasive thoughts you're excessively worrying about. You know things that haven't happened yet. Go talk to somebody, it's okay. You have to educate people. You have to set the table to make people feel comfortable about things that they need to do about their mental health and taking care of it. You know the bottom line. The bottom line is understanding that mental health issues are not a sign of weakness.

37:20

Right, they're not a sign of weakness. You know it's not a rare mental health is not rare, you know and not even get into any data or that point.

37:30

But there's so many people with mental health issues, and especially since COVID-19 yeah baby, the isolation, that thing, that thing burst open so many things for people and the greatest thing I say is, like most people are anxious, they recognize their own anxiety also, besides education, and it's also about what we're doing. We talked about this already communicate. We're communicating about it, listening to other people, respecting people's space if they share something, oh, there's nothing wrong with you no, that ain't the answer. The answer is be quiet and listen, yes, be quiet and listen, active listen. People just always think you got to make a comment yeah, how about just how?

38:18

about just taking it in and saying you know? I hate you.

38:22

You know what can I do to help right, you know show that support to people and let them know that they can depend on you. You know you have to uh uh respect people. Respect people's autonomy you know they have a right and respect their own decision about if they decide they want to go to therapy. Don't start writing them about going to therapy. That is true. Respect. Respect their decision. Respect that they want to see a professional. Respect that they realize that they may need some medication. There's no shame in that, you know, encourage people to seek professional help. You don't even have to try to work it out. Just tell them to go see someone you know and just just just be supportive. I think those are the biggest things that we can do for each other is just to listen and provide that, that support that you need to be able to get people through. You don't even understand what a difference it makes when you listen to somebody, when you just listen to them how that impacts them.

39:32

Yeah and just say you know, I hear you. I said I you know I don't have much to say, but I just really want to know how it can help you. Can I help you make some calls? Can I help you look at your insurance and see what kind of coverage you have? I really want to encourage you to see someone that can really talk to you and help you unpack this for yourself and see what things are out there for you. You know, look look at the team. There's so many, so many things now that you can. You can get therapy now on texting.

40:04 - Damaris (Host)

I'm not doing that, I'm not texting with nobody. No, no, no, no, no. That's too much of me.

40:10 - Eda (Host)

But, hey, if it works for you it works for you. It's available. Absolutely, absolutely.

40:17 - Damaris (Host)

It's like fostering and creating a safe space for people.

40:21 - Eda (Host)

Yes, you know, and I just love that there's so many agency everything. Covid made it happen for a long time They've been, I mean for a long time. Covid didn't have a choice, but they always fought social work, social workers. About the virtual space no, you have to be in the presence of clients. This is this will be going to pay for if you're with the client, right?

40:50

Oh boy, covid change that we can't be with them, but just, but they still need it and they saw that it was viable, right and it was fruitful and it was useful for people to be able to obtain mental health services from their home on the telephone or their car, you know like right exactly.

41:11 - Damaris (Host)

But it's that flexibility that allowed that to happen.

41:15 - Eda (Host)

Yes, absolutely, and so you know it's. It's an innovative process and I really believe that they need that innovation will continue. Now I'm teasing about the chat. That's not for me. You have to know what your, your, your, your boundary is as a professional, and so that I can't do all that type, and I'm even gonna lie.

41:37 - Damaris (Host)

But I'll talk to them on the phone.

41:40 - Eda (Host)

I virtual 95% of my sessions are virtual, you know, and the people that come for their home and I'm in a comfort of mind and and we, you know we do some great work together, you know, mainly they're doing the work. That's why I tell them, I say you know, therapy is work is the first thing I tell people. You know, therapy is work. If you want change and you want improvement, then you got to work at it.

42:03

Yeah, and so that means doing exactly and then evaluating all the things that come up, you know, as you go along, because at the end of the day, you know, we each have a role in that, and so that's why, you know, we joke around come on you know, we family, you know you know, but we really really really try to challenge yourself, not to use those terms, right, because they're really not positive. But we know, and it's just, it's so hard not to be doing this alone.

42:34 - Damaris (Host)

It's an evolution to and I mean, I think sometimes it's just like you have to know the person and understand how much of that they'll, that that'll really impact them and that's why, yeah, am I going to call a person that I don't really know or you know, an acquaintance like you, crazy bitch? No, but my cousin, yeah, because you know, I know you and you know me, because you know, you, oh, you saying I'm crazy. No, I'm looking at you but I don't mean you.

43:04 - Nachi (Host)

But she ain't, she's not saying, oh, let's get that straight.

43:08 - Eda (Host)

Let's get that straight.

43:12 - Damaris (Host)

No, but you know so. I'm also just not going to police myself with people I feel safe with, yes, but the idea of like, am I going to use those labels, you know? Right random people or people know.

43:27 - Nachi (Host)

Also that people, just like you said we it's been, so we use it so long just just as a matter of speak like oh girl, you're crazy. Or you know, we just have to be a bit mindful of, you know, using some other terminology to take the place of what we normally would have said yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:53 - Damaris (Host)

Are there any other things that, any other strategies that you would use to see someone that needs help? Or and maybe they don't you want to like, encourage them, but without making them feel like you know you're accusing them or something or diagnosing them or something, but again creating a space. How do you? You know, like what is? Some other strategies you kind of touched upon a little bit already, but you get what I'm asking.

44:23 - Eda (Host)

Yes, yes, I do, I do get, because it's a hard conversation.

44:26 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah.

44:27 - Eda (Host)

You know it's a hard conversation to have someone that you love and you're noticing these different actions or behaviors that they're doing, and so always remember it's not about the person. Speak to what you see. And you know say, for example, I will say to us at the members you know, I notice, you know that you, you, you are staring out the window. You know, though you've been staring at the window for hours is is are you feeling okay? Is there's anything happening? Are you, are you concerned about something? Is something happening?

45:03

You know they give you warning signs of like they're not doing well and say and just say what you see, man, I'm noticing you're not sleeping and you know not sleeping is not good for you, it's just, it's not, you know, doesn't promote health and wellness, and I'm concerned about you. I want you to get sleep. Is there something that's keeping you up or is there something happening with you? And I and I always encourage, I, I'm transparent, I believe in transparency and I believe in I always encourage people to see. Say what you see. Don't say, don't say it in a vague way, don't say it in a way.

45:43

That is like they feel like you're accusing them or something or you're blaming them, just telling what you're noticing, and I find that people respond to that. Yeah, like you know, when you come across empathetic and caring towards them, it's very important.

45:59 - Damaris (Host)

Not judgmental.

46:00 - Eda (Host)

What's wrong with you, fool, are you?

46:02 - Damaris (Host)

saying that that's not. You're going to tell them.

46:04 - Eda (Host)

No, that's not the way.

46:07 - Nachi (Host)

No, be, like no, because they're going to brush it off and just. Exactly, we're getting defensive.

46:13 - Damaris (Host)

Exactly.

46:14 - Nachi (Host)

That's stupid bitch.

46:16 - Eda (Host)

Exactly, that's it.

46:18

That's how I go, you know and sometimes and maybe if, if you are not able to, and then you see that the symptoms are progressive. Most well, in New York, definitely, I know, and some other states use this model too. They have what they call mobile crisis, and mobile crisis will come to the home. The only problem with mobile crisis is that it's such a rich service that you know they may not be able to come for two to three weeks. You know from the, from the time of the incident, so you know you can call three in New York.

46:55

You can call 311 and say, listen, I you know they're not doing anything that I feel like they're going to hurt themselves or other, but I'm concerned about them.

47:06

And I really want to see if there's someone that can come talk to them. Where can I get them connected? You know, and that that's another way of getting people to services If you're unable to do it yourself, if you don't feel comfortable doing it. You know it's important to do that. You know, to get them what they need. Right, Because at the end of the day, you don't want it to escalate. When things escalate, it escalates with the person going to the hospital, Right. So if you can do, if you can interrupt that from going to the house or mobile crisis comes to the house, they assess.

47:39

They assess, okay, this person, not a danger to themself or other, but you know they need to see a therapist. They may need this. They need to have a medication evaluation. Let's do this while they're at home, right?

47:51 - Damaris (Host)

That's a that's so much better, so much better.

47:54 - Eda (Host)

That's just one of the things that was a benefit of moving into the behavioral health landscape where they combined everything is because it forced institutions and and agencies to have to deal with the fact that there there are people that are in between that chronic and non existent or low existent mental health.

48:21 - Damaris (Host)

You know what I mean.

48:22 - Eda (Host)

Yeah, maintenance, and I'm talking about maintenance, I'm because, again, everybody has mental health.

48:25

Yeah, it just depends where you are on the spectrum. But that middle bunch of people, when they closed down, they didn't close Brown psychiatric center. What they did was they went down from when I used to work there. I don't want to say a lot, but I remember at least 1000 beds in the hospital and I said today I mean well, let me not say today because I haven't been in touch with them, but when I left there it was slated to be a hospital for 175 people.

48:58

Wow 1000s to 100 said that was the plan for New York state. Okay, right, and so? So what happens to all the people? So they created all these housing opportunities where people that've been their whole life, most of their life, a long part of their life in inpatient Now you're putting them in the community without the resources that they need. This happened like a and forgive cause. You know I'm trying to think about the period of time this happened.

49:32 - Damaris (Host)

But you can see it while you're thinking about that. You can see that over time, because in New York City you go to 100 and 200. You go to 125th and Lexington. Good girl, that area.

49:42 - Eda (Host)

I don't go there. It has.

49:43 - Damaris (Host)

I don't either I have to drive through there, because when we come from the Bronx, that is where they take us down, but it is literally. You have methadone clinics, you have, you know, people that come from the homeless shelter dropped off from this island.

49:59 - Eda (Host)

It is yeah.

50:02 - Damaris (Host)

And then the people of that community and a number of other. You know different facilities and things like that that deal with Either substance abuse or you know all the issues. They want to put it all in this one neighborhood and you see that some of these people have nowhere to go and they hang out there and they're dropped off there.

50:22

Dropped off, so like if there's no place for them in the hospital like it, and they require inpatient. That's where they're at, that. At least that was the way it was like 10 years ago or so, but even when you walk through there you can see that it's still probably the same situation.

50:36 - Eda (Host)

It's just still drop off point Exactly and they still have that, even though they like as fast as they make the programs, as fast as they get filled. There's so many people that need services, so many people that need attention, and it's like we don't have the right model. I don't know.

50:52 - Damaris (Host)

And I'm not going to.

50:52 - Eda (Host)

I'm not going to say that I'm like the expert and know them, but the models that they're using ain't really working.

50:59 - Damaris (Host)

Let me tell you something.

51:02 - Eda (Host)

When the people you know your plan is get these people out of the hospital. You can't just put somebody in a new setting. You have to have some kind of way to like integrate them, ease them, ease them, ease them. And then you leave them one day and just run them. You ease them in, you know, you ease them and we created those kind of connections with providers to help people. Thank you.

51:26 - Damaris (Host)

Lastly, is we talked about how do we support our loved ones? And then I just want to close out with, like how did we support ourselves? And you know, and you talked about it throughout, like those check-ins.

51:37 - Nachi (Host)

Is it?

51:37 - Damaris (Host)

should I be feeling this way, should I be in this mood? For this long and you know what are those things that you should watch out for. And then what do you do? Right?

51:45 - Eda (Host)

Yes, yes, so that's easy. Um, what are the things I do with my clients? Most of them is I do a check-in with them. I tell them, tell me your mood, you know, and I and I used to the two main ones. What are two main ones? It's anxiety and depression. Zero is now. This is not at us model. This is I'm using cognitive behavior therapy. I love cognitive behavior therapy because it's a therapy that helps you measure and gauge things in a real, concrete way. That helps people to start to pay attention, because that's what you want to do. You want to pay attention. And so I asked them zero is no anxiety, 10 is Is the highest. Where are you right now? And then I asked them tell me where you are, where were you since the last session, you know, and start to look at that numbers. And then I could, when I write it in a note, I can see over the course of a month.

52:42

Huh, the average has been this is is is trending the right way. They're managing, they do. So what are you doing? Well, first of all, the first number one and we started with this, so it's nice we're circling back to it is self care. Right, so you have to prioritize you again. You cannot be available to others if you're not taking care of yourself. But we see, we're so wired that way. Yeah and so trained to Push our needs aside. Yes, especially as women and these other, especially as women.

53:17

You know, wives, everybody comes before, yeah, except in my house, in my home. Yeah, you guys dominate.

53:26 - Damaris (Host)

We know.

53:28 - Eda (Host)

I'm not doing that. That's my favorite thing. I'm not doing that shit my favorite.

53:35 - Nachi (Host)

My role, my money would be like. Oh my god, you remind me of my mother.

53:44 - Eda (Host)

Yeah, you know what you are right now she talking smack to Bryce, now it's so she, like mommy now understand, is boundaries like no Founder is not, it is the thing and it's the thing with me, and I had to. I had to apply this to my church like to wow, because it's everything.

54:07

Yeah you know it's everything. You cannot be out of balance with all the things that you're doing. Come on now I roll model. You know how they talk about Jesus y'all come on. Okay, he was. He's our role model. He's our role model. You think he wasn't tired after feeling five thousand people?

54:25 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, Loves a brand wasn't he wasn't he sleeping on the boat and it was like a storm, and then his.

54:40 - Eda (Host)

That you are with the. Just admire the beauty, the song, because ain't nothing gonna happen, right? I gotta miss you. I'm here, I'm your security because I'm here, but they didn't get that. They get there. They fear overtakes them. Yeah, and that's, that's another. That's Another sign is when your emotions start to get away from you, when you're worrying too much and nervous. Yes, anxious, yes, you know you're scared, you're profoundly sad with, with Either with, I don't like to say with no reason, because our emotions shift.

55:21 - Damaris (Host)

For some reason.

55:22 - Eda (Host)

Right, we just sometimes are not in tune with it. Yes, but I'm just saying like in that moment it's not nothing, like not nobody passed away, or right, you know she's y'all. It's just like you, just in the state of sadness. And so it's going over a period of time and so you have to pay attention to that and create, generate activities that's gonna help you, because number one if you're depressed, the number one thing to help with depression is activity, activities and distraction.

55:51 - Damaris (Host)

You know.

55:51 - Eda (Host)

If you feel depressed, get out the bed go forward, go do and, and Especially, something you like, right? If you like. Let's just say you like taking pictures. You're a photographer, go outside and take some pictures. That's gonna help with your mood right and you keep practicing those things. It helps to shift there to help you deal with what you're feeling. But it starts with you making up your mind that you want to take care of yourself that you want to, you know, say, like you know, what I can't.

56:26

So for me it's I say you well, okay, I'll go for a run, like you know, like a few weeks of doing things because church and work and this and that and the other.

56:37

But then I say hold the line, hold the line. They like tomorrow is gonna be one of them days. Okay, tomorrow I have absolutely when I select, because I preach on Sunday, but I Finish, tighten up my sermon, but I don't have to get up early tomorrow. Right, I don't have to do anything, it's good. I'm not gonna make breakfast, I don't feel I'm not gonna cook. Yeah, but I pull up that shredded wheat and some milk and be happy. You know I'm not going in. Yeah, you better tell her. You know you're not gonna take care of my bubble.

57:11

I might make a little whip of a little something, something, but you know, it's just about that I'm gonna stay in the bed. I'm not gonna get up, I'm gonna. I feel like I just want to lay down and I want to watch. The dolphins beat the Giants again. I watched the football games. I don't never watch the ones that they lose.

57:33 - Damaris (Host)

Sure.

57:34 - Eda (Host)

I watch against like, yeah, that was a good, that was good. You know, whatever I feel like it yeah and how I wanted that, you know I, and so for me to bring my a game.

57:44

I have to be rested and so these are some of the things that I do to rest is you know what, lord, I want to hear from you, and I love where it says and I'm mad I don't remember the address but it says be still and know that I am God right, and so you have to be still you have to be still you have to be still and you have to take time to, to be still, to be quiet, not talking.

58:09 - Nachi (Host)

Yes.

58:10 - Eda (Host)

Sometimes I like practicing silence. Dominique, you say some bug out, dominique. Dominique, you said come on and everything would be off and she would be like my what you, what's going?

58:21 - Damaris (Host)

on you all right.

58:24 - Eda (Host)

Yes, can I be quiet with my God? Thank, you. Yes, I want to be quiet. It's all right to be quiet. Mm-hmm and learn to deal with the noise, yeah because see, that's why people don't like to be quiet is because there's so much noise happening.

58:40 - Damaris (Host)

They don't know what to manage it.

58:42 - Eda (Host)

So if that noise Doesn't calm down on its own, then I suggest you speak to someone, right, you know? Yep, if that noise, if you're able to, because each one of us, we know that our minds wonder and that's a part of human nature and At the same time, you can like, even for if it's a for 60 seconds, let me just be quiet and be still and not think of anything and just be present in this moment.

59:11

You know, one of the biggest things that I teach my clients and there's a tool how do you do this is to practice mindfulness. You have to practice mindfulness. Mindfulness is that act of being aware in this present moment, mm-hmm, where I am right now, I'm not thinking about what's over there, I'm not thinking about what's behind me. I'm thinking about me right here, at this moment in time, and whatever kind of activity that I need to do to help me do that. Yeah, so I encourage breathing. People think like oh, that's all I'm coming to.

59:46 - Damaris (Host)

You think it's been studied for centuries look, we had an episode in our season one about breath work. Breath work really is so, yes, it's. Breathing exercises will help regulate your body.

01:00:04 - Nachi (Host)

If you ever like, if you take those moments of just being still, sometimes you would Realize that you're not breathing because I.

01:00:14 - Damaris (Host)

I would hold in your myself.

01:00:15 - Nachi (Host)

Yes, I would catch myself like. Yeah, but you're not you're holding your breath. You know, especially like if you're doing something or so, especially something that's like that's creating a lot of anxiety, intend to just like hold your breath because you're trying to get over whatever it is that you're trying to do and you're holding your breath. So, kind of going back to what you said is just being mindful and just Things still in the air.

01:00:54 - Eda (Host)

Yes, that was telling about the pause. Yeah, I tell this is what and that's why I tell my clients all the time it's work. So if you're not gonna work, don't come, because I'm not gonna listen to the same story over and over again every week. We're gonna talk about that. So why is this story pet? I don't mean I'm, you know, I'm being. But I thought I find it interesting. Just the same thing. You share what? What are you getting out of this story?

01:01:20 - Damaris (Host)

What is different? How?

01:01:21 - Eda (Host)

are you gonna be different? What do you need to be different? You know. I kind of encouraging them to find because you know I never give the answer. They were like but tell me what to do. I don't know what. What would you do? You know, because I'm not gonna tell you the answer. But the bottom line is is just that self reflection in the moment? Say it to yourself. I'm a pause, I'm gonna take three breaths and then I'm gonna respond right and I have them practiced different levels of breathing Depending on what they need.

01:01:56

Some of them need to go to the um, need to go somewhere and go sit out before they talk, because they know they have this emotion Outbursts and that's part of mental health.

01:02:06

It's like our emotions deregulate when we get triggered by something someone said or somebody did, and so, yeah, and to do, I Get involved, cuz. And to deal also with anxiety that one right there, breathing is so good and I'm telling you just if I do a study, just on the cases that I work, they come in, they can't wait for me to do the meditation with them. It's like we gonna do a meditation today, you know, because they get a cut as they practice. There's so many apps, there's so many things on Google and YouTube, because if you've never meditated and you never try, to do it you need to start very small increments you try to do 20 minutes.

01:02:52

Let me tell you what's going to get up. You're gonna be like oh, I can't do this, not for me. Yeah, no, all I. My only suggestion, if you really want to try it, is have a notepad and a pencil next to you so that when your mind wanders, you write it down and then get back to the meditation. You start to train you. You have to train yourself. Every all of this self-care is a training. You have to train yourself to self-care. You have to train yourself to say like I can't give anymore.

01:03:24 - Nachi (Host)

You have to learn this time.

01:03:26 - Eda (Host)

I like how you said it about. You know there's nothing overflowing over here. So, I can't, I can't do that you know, and knowing your own limitations and setting boundaries.

01:03:39 - Nachi (Host)

All of that law have mercy.

01:03:40 - Eda (Host)

Yes all of those things.

01:03:42 - Damaris (Host)

Yes.

01:03:42 - Eda (Host)

I mean come on.

01:03:43 - Damaris (Host)

No, no, we could be here because there's so many things that, again, it's not just mental health, it is Everything, is everything about your life. So that includes the physical, that includes the emotional, the spiritual, the, you know, and the mental, and all of those contribute to each other in some way of how, how, how, how you are on that spectrum of health. And so, with that said, we're so grateful to have had you on the show. We love you to pieces and we're so grateful that, hey, number one, that you're related to us and your Resource for us, a rock for us. Praise God, you know so unofficially, our therapist when we need it, and our support, like in our rock, like I just said. And then I would love for you to share what services people you may offer to the public that people may be interested in, and you know, and let our folks, listeners, know how they could find you Right right?

01:04:51 - Eda (Host)

Well, I think you can find me. There's a website called Zen care and so I'm listed there because, as I said, you know, I started from the beginning. All transparency. I'm not licensed to practice independently, but I can assure you that that's just a formality because of New York State in their route. But I ain't gonna get into that. Be whatever, I'm doing my time right and I anticipate I'll come back when I get my clinical license where I could practice independently. But you can find me in Zen care. I work for three great agencies that provide psychotherapy. One is called effective lcsw services. I also work for open-minded therapy and I just started with Comprehensive counseling, and I serve at the pleasure of my pastor at the Mount Cuomo Baptist Church where my pastor is the doctor, reverend Dr Anthony Lowe, and my sister pastors, reverend doctor, so Lake Adams, and I'ma Associate minister there and I offer a non-judgmental, unbiased Reception and if you want to work, I'm gonna put my hand with you. I'm gonna work with you.

01:06:12

Yeah help get you where you want to go.

01:06:15 - Damaris (Host)

I love it. I love it. So, with that said, I'm gonna close out with our statement that we always close out with. There's a lot of noise out there, boy, is there a lot of noise out there? But our message is consistent Stop getting distracted by the smoke and mirrors. Tune out the noise and focus on your purpose in life, what brings you joy in life, because we're put on this earth, we're meant to be joyful. So live your truth, vibrate higher. Love you guys. So, that said, don't forget to subscribe to our channel and follow us on Instagram tick tock and Twitter at I'm not yelling underscore. Thank you so much for listening.