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Twists, Kinks and Coils: Curly Hair. Don’t Care. Episode Transcript

00:00 - Nachi (Host)

In this episode, we'll discuss our personal experience with natural hair. We'll share the ups and downs, the challenges we faced and the triumphs we've experienced along the way. Join us as we explore how our relationship with our hair has grown and evolved over time. Welcome to another episode of I'm Not Yelling, I'm Dominican Podcast. Welcome back, everybody. This is your girl, nachi, and I'm here with the one and only Damaris, also known as the evil tinkerbell from my former boss.

00:42 - Damaris (Host)

He will remain nameless unless someone asks me directly. I will let you know who I'm talking about.

00:50 - Nachi (Host)

It's like a combination of balance of the two sides of you.

00:56 - Damaris (Host)

Seriously, you know I'm a little fairy, sometimes nice sometimes not so nice.

01:03 - Nachi (Host)

Yes, yes, sparkle, yes. So we are so happy to also have back here our primita Diana Landrina. She is back with us to talk about hair and her new project and you know we're just so excited to get into it. Diana, before we start off with our conversation, why don't you introduce yourself to our listener and give them you know, tell them a little bit about yourself and what you've been up to?

01:33 - Dhayana (Host)

Of course, of course. Thank you, ladies, for having me again and your beautiful and amazing podcast. I mean, I've been killing it and I'm really proud of you both really looking forward for everything that you create. You know, towards the end of this year and the next year and I was going to be bomb. Hi everyone, my name is Diana Alejandrina and I am a Dominican poet, speaker, creative writing mentor and, as I usually say, a student of life. I am an author of a poetry and prose collection, agri Duice, and, yeah, I'm here to discuss hair. You know our background, what does that look like? And I'm excited to dive in.

02:17 - Damaris (Host)

So thank you for having me. This is going to be a fun topic of conversation, I think, because, from our culture individually, we all have our own personal hair journey and what that looked like for us and the three of us being Dominican, you know we're coming from a very distinct perspective, that I think we probably have some shared commonalities as well as there's probably some just individual differences, obviously as just being unique human beings. So I'm curious to hear from you about, as a child, how did you view your hair and like and the? How did you get to view your hair in that way, the why behind that?

03:09 - Dhayana (Host)

Right. So I have plenty of stories about how I view my hair. The very first one that I can recall and I'm not sure if I was maybe eight or seven or nine, I'm not sure, but it was looking at some of my cousins.

03:27

They used to live in a more like Alperi, sado, santo Lomingo, but they came to the hood from the neighborhood, you know, and they'll come in to go visit their grandma and I used to always look at how beautiful and kept together they looked and how their hair was always silky and permed and perfectly put. And you know it's sad but I don't remember much of my natural hair, you know, because I asked my mom if I could permit when I was around nine, almost 10. And you know she let me. But I really do have a love, her relationship with the men and we can die later.

04:17 - Damaris (Host)

That's all part of the journey.

04:19 - Dhayana (Host)

So I just I wish I had more memories of me with my natural hair. But the memories that I have are from when I asked to perm my hair, how I used to see all the commercials and how it was publicized and promoted to perm your hair with the silky hair, with the beautiful, light skinned women with the nice perm hair, and that's what we saw in the Dominican Republic. I mean, when you look at the shows, even now, that's what you see.

04:46 - Nachi (Host)

And it's almost like a rite of passage, right?

04:50 - Damaris (Host)

It's like oh, it's time you write a passage.

04:52 - Nachi (Host)

Right. It's like, hey, it's time to perm your hair. I didn't ask for it. I mean, you asked for it, right.

04:59 - Dhayana (Host)

And that's because, even though the young magic is a part of me felt like I wasn't beautiful with my curly hair, and back then I didn't see that much representation of curly-headed women that loved their hair, they knew how to take care of their hair. Who told all the women hey, this is how you do it, this is how you keep it. No, don't perm your hair. You can blow dry it, but you don't have to perm it.

05:21

I didn't have that and, yeah, my mom told me stories about herself as well, so I understand better also her level of knowledge when it came to my hair.

05:36 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, I think for me. So it's interesting because my father and well, I should say our father and our mother, since we're parents they had different types of hair. Our father's hair was soft and curly and my mom's hair is tighter, curls, but still a little bit loose, but tighter curls than my father, for sure. And my sister, she has my father's hair, so it's very soft, it's curly, and I have hair that I think likely comes from my grandmother and my father's side, because even my hair doesn't even match my mom's hair.

06:22

And I always it was like my young memories of my hair. And for those that have not seen me, or for the listeners out there that don't know what I look like, I'm brown skin and my hair is tightly curled. I like you know, and up until now but to the last nine years, I didn't know what my natural hair texture was because, again, I have pictures of when I was five, six, but it wasn't until I was seven when my mom actually relaxed my hair, and I know she did that because it was a time constraint for her in terms of working with my hair. I had a lot of hair and so it was thick and then it was just like you know, with our kind of hair, you have to be, you need patience and you need to be gentle with it too, because it's actually as it can be fragile.

07:21

And so that meant that requires longer time to do certain styles and you have girls so you have to do the hair every day. And I think from my mom relaxing my hair, part of it was definitely to make it easier to do my hair, and I don't fall for that Like I'm. Like you know, she did what she had to do at that time, but I always noticed that my sister's hair was looser and her curls are looser and so it was like there was always the. In general, if you needed to use a relaxer, you do tenía pelo malo right. So it was like the hair was bad anyway.

07:59

But which is kind of crazy, right, but it was just like OK, yeah, yeah, if you have curly hair, your hair is bad. If your hair is straight looser it's definitely good hair and it's just like, ok, that's just ingrained. But in a weird way I didn't feel bad about it. It was like, oh, that's just what it is, which is also equally fucked up right.

08:22 - Nachi (Host)

Right right.

08:24 - Damaris (Host)

It was just what I had. It was hard to control hair. That was called bad, and that's how I viewed it in my early adolescence.

08:34 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, for me it's interesting because I think the first I was probably nine, so we probably got a pair of glasses on at the same time. But I recall just I actually loved my hair when I was young and I hated when mommy would always put my hair in a pigtail because I wanted it out.

09:05 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, she wanted the Diana Ross.

09:07 - Nachi (Host)

Yes that's not to be funny, but Diana Ross was it. I was just like, yeah, I mean my hair out.

09:16

Like, let me swing it. And I remember one time, just because we were latchkey kids, so we would go to school on our own, so my mom was already at work or on her way to work before we left for school and the routine has always been getting our hair done the night before, so that in the morning we take up our scarf and we're just ready to go. We don't have to do much to our hair. And I remember one time, because I wanted my hair out, I undid the two pigtails and I was fluffing it out and I did the school.

09:58 - Damaris (Host)

Yes, it was tango, you could have told me.

10:03 - Dhayana (Host)

Hey what? Oh, my hands are your face. I'm sorry.

10:08 - Nachi (Host)

Right, as the day went by, my hair started growing bigger and bigger and I went home and I tried to quickly roll it back, put it in a two pigtail, but I was just like what is wrong with your?

10:24

hair. Why is it like this? Why is it so hard to untangle? But I just knew I enjoyed my hair. I didn't have any bad feelings towards it or any negative feelings towards my hair. But I also didn't hate the fact that they relaxed my hair either. I wasn't upset that they relaxed. I think it's just that same perception or conditioning that we had, where it's like oh, having straight, fine hair, is that?

11:04 - Dhayana (Host)

on the next level. It's what you strive for.

11:06 - Damaris (Host)

It's that marker for beauty.

11:08 - Nachi (Host)

Right, Right. It's like OK, so that was the thing that we strive for and the problem with my hair that not even relaxers worked well with my hair. Even though I had it on my hair, it would become curled. It would get really frizzy.

11:29 - Damaris (Host)

It was resisting it was resisting.

11:32 - Nachi (Host)

So I used to always yeah, and I used to hate that I go through this whole process of relaxing my hair. I should have bone straight hair. That's what I'm going for. And just going back to what you mentioned the Dominican salon you go to the Dominican salon. Your hair was bone straight. They'll fry it straight, no, fry it and that's what? Pretty good yes.

12:00 - Damaris (Host)

As in, you'll never get your hair done and I didn't.

12:03 - Nachi (Host)

I have my own story about that.

12:05 - Dhayana (Host)

My curl pattern got fucked up.

12:06 - Nachi (Host)

But that was the standard, right, yeah, but that was the standard and that's what they were looking for to straighten the kinks out. Absolutely, it's making the kinks are bad.

12:17 - Dhayana (Host)

And I think about it. I really do, because I started asking more questions and asked my mom about her own hair and it really comes down to her parents not having their parents talk to them about how to take care of their natural hair. So I don't look at hair and blame her for her not knowing, because even when I was little she was like yeah, la vecina used to tell me what are you going to do with her hair? Because you can't even do her hair Like my hair wasn't easy to do as well.

12:47

So for me that decision of asking my mom was almost like I just wanted to fit in, because everyone seemed to always have their hair wrapped up ready to go at the salon. Every time Saturday morning, you know, everyone was at the salon and it felt like, ok, I guess I need to be that way too. But then it started to become hostile and judgmental, because I remember as a little girl going to the salon and I would feel very uncomfortable and be like little, like the little almost, when you know they would say, oh, I'm going to do this, or like you couldn't even brush it out or like something, or it was just like the demeanor of treating my hair.

13:39 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, you're made to feel. Make me feel even more. It's just making you feel bad.

13:43 - Dhayana (Host)

Yeah, make me like more low about what it looked like, and it breaks my heart that I really don't have many memories of me with my curly hair, like me looking at myself in a mirror and saying I love my curly hair you know what I mean.

13:56

It was more of like I want a permist so I can fit in, and even after I've permed my hair, I have stories of going to school and girls making fun of how I did my hair and then I'm like yo. So when is it going to be enough? Because you know a girl will be rude and I'm just over here trying to exist with my little half ponytail. You know what I mean. I'm the other love. Ok, you're a little bit. I don't know what she want me to do.

14:28 - Damaris (Host)

But they're already straight you know.

14:31 - Dhayana (Host)

So, dealing with that, I had a lot of insecurities with my hair and not having someone to tell me stop perming it or this is how you treat it. You know like I cut my hair so many times when I permed, I kept it like super, super short and you know, to say the least, I stopped perming my hair in 2015. I was turning 20. And that was when I finally said, ok, I have to follow through with it, because before that I tried to stop perming my hair like let it grow, and I lost my mind when I saw the curls and then they straight hair. I was like I look hideous.

15:14

I look hideous. No, the transition period is the worst period to go through. And then I gave up.

15:21 - Damaris (Host)

It is very difficult, you need a whole support.

15:24 - Nachi (Host)

And I had none, just to get you through.

15:27 - Damaris (Host)

That's a whole different conversation, but we're still going to talk about it. It is like it is a conversation about transitioning, and part of it is like you've already touched on it we weren't even trained to manage our hair in its natural state by our own parents, and that was because of their own education at home when it came to their natural hair, and so it's like you know, how do you teach that?

15:53

And my mom she was. It's funny because your experience in the Dominican salons, I would say there also may be somewhat slightly different than the experiences in the Dominican salons in the US, right? So growing up we didn't really go to salons until we were like teenagers and that was because my mom was like I'm not spending money in the hair. She would do our hair so she would relax our hair. She wouldn't do it often. So I think that also helped maintain our hair to be healthy, because she was very strict about how frequent we were going to do it and then she used her leaving conditioners and then she was very good, regimented about how she took care of our hair.

16:35

So our hair was relatively healthy given the chemical process, which was good because you need to work on it even more. And so while my hair was straight, I was like I loved it because I was like, oh, my hair's flowing and it's long, it's straight and it's moving. But also, by the time I became an adult and was going to a Dominican salons regularly, I didn't know enough about conditioners and stuff and I started to put too much protein, started to use too much protein conditioners that my hair started to break off and I actually thought it was the relaxers. But then I have my hairdressers not even telling me that oh maybe you shouldn't use this, but I'm like, don't y'all know?

17:23 - Nachi (Host)

No, no, no, no, not to that level. No, no, but I'm like that's not that level.

17:26 - Damaris (Host)

But if you do it my hair every week you should know that using our protein conditioner every week, is not good.

17:32 - Nachi (Host)

Right? No, their whole goal is to make hair straight. Straight and make it in Period.

17:39 - Dhayana (Host)

And that it stays like that for as long as possible, burk.

17:44 - Damaris (Host)

Burk hair, Burk hair. But I will say the one time I think I had an experience in DR. We went there for one of our trips to DR and I had to go to a hairdress out there.

17:57 - Dhayana (Host)

Yeah, they're rude as fuck I was like well, I got to do this. Yeah, I'll talk to you. I'll work with experience all the time, Of course, because I have mine.

18:04 - Damaris (Host)

I want to hear both of you out worst experience in the salon. And it was just like. I think my worst experience was definitely at the salon in the Middler Republic, not the salons out here. Salons here. They burn your scalp whatever, but if you've got a good woman, she'll work with your scalp. But, out there. I just remember feeling just respected. I'm like what I do to you, that you got to talk to me crazy, and I'm saying this at the age of 10. I'm like, what did I do to you?

18:33 - Nachi (Host)

My worst one was I was yeah, no, for real.

18:37 - Damaris (Host)

And I was like I don't want to be here, but it's like. You know, my theory is like we pay for this, you stay here and do it Really, your hair's going to get done?

18:47 - Nachi (Host)

No, mine was actually at a salon here in Virginia. I was pregnant with my daughter and actually I had already transitioned. My hair was natural and I just needed to. I wanted to get it a roller set and at that time they were just starting to get people with natural hair Because they were trying to convince me relax your hair. But I'm like no, I don't want to relax my hair, just roll it up and blow the roots and I'm good, just don't worry about the rest. I literally had to walk out with my rollers on because they were not listening. They were making the situation just. I mean, like from the very beginning they were talking about my hair.

19:37 - Dhayana (Host)

How style is this? I needed a relaxer.

19:41 - Nachi (Host)

And they're just like. I don't want a relaxer, I just want just a cute little bob. You know, let me let my hair bounce a little.

19:50 - Dhayana (Host)

They think it's a little bit.

19:52 - Nachi (Host)

It's really sad, it's terrible so.

19:54 - Dhayana (Host)

I felt yeah, For sure.

19:56 - Damaris (Host)

I have to honestly how did you think this affected your self-esteem? Oh no, no, oh no, no.

20:02 - Dhayana (Host)

Well, the first school was a couple of years when I was in DR and I wanted to. I was about to come back to the US and I wanted to get my hair straightened up. You know, it was like a while it was probably two years since I did it. So I was like, let me just go and do it. It was yeah, and so you know I'm going, I'm doing her thing. I tell her that I don't want too much heat, right that blow dry just with a blow dry. Don't fly iron it, right, unless it's like a part that really needs it right in the near of the other.

20:35

Um, my hair got so much heat in it that when I went home like a couple days that I washed it, I could still smell the heat. Oh, my goodness right. And I started crying. Yeah, because after that my, my curl pattern was never the same. It was never the same. I had, like a different pattern on the front, a different than pattern, like in certain areas, and I was heartbroken because it's like I already take so much devastating notionally to get to, to accept and and love our hair as part of ourselves.

21:16

And then I asked you to do something and you don't. And then my second one was the reason why I just shopped my hair not a month ago, because I went to dominicans along here. My hair now is like nachis. But diana, you don't learn your lesson.

21:33

You don't learn your lesson, but this time I was literally going for a trim girl. I didn't even want to get my hair straight now. I just said I'm just want to go for a trip, right, but I love us. But it seems that we just don't understand when we say something. So I say I know it can't be that bad, I just want to go get it. And as soon as I stepped into the salon it was. It was literally a wave of literally flashbacks. I would. I think I was having ptsc, like childhood memories, like just I felt awake, right. So I was just sitting in the chair and I was just hoping that I wasn't being judged and it's crazy, like just sitting there I was like you know, everybody's getting their hair blow dry and I just want a little trim. So I go, she washes my hair, is brushing it off, um, sits me down and I tell her I just want a little trim because my hair is long now and I love it and it took years.

22:35

I just I just let her start and then I'm just seeing I'm like yo, she keeps cutting, she's giving you a no I got out of there with one side shorter than the other oh, my and I already knew, because you didn't want and I couldn't.

22:52

I don't know if anyone whatever like I don't know if anyone listening to this will understand, but I literally could not. I my voice was gone. I think that the, the fear, the trauma, everything just hit me at once and I just watched her do it. I just watched her cut my hair and I froze, I froze. So when I left then I saw it in my car and looked in the mirror. I just started crying because I was like my hair is gone and my hair is completely not the same.

23:25

And after that, I went home and I was just like crying, crying, heartbroken, and yeah, like next week I got my braids done.

23:35

And then, after I took my braids out, I said fuck it, I'm cutting my hair off and I wanted to for a long time anyways kind of like shut the way of it for some reason. So it's been very liberating and for me, even more of a special, intimate journey to cut my hair and know that, one is beautiful. Two, I can build an even stronger relationship with how I treat my hair as a reflection of who I am and how I love myself, and that, three, I don't have to have long hair to be or feel beautiful and um, yeah, but I have. I love, hate, hate relationships with, with, yeah no we get it.

24:23 - Nachi (Host)

How was, how was it when you first transition um from your relaxed hair? How did people start receiving that or treating you?

24:39 - Dhayana (Host)

um, by then my mom had stopped perming her hair as well, although she to continue to straighten her hair, so that's a whole other topic. She felt like she looked elegant with her hair straight. So she still was just right, you know, blow drying her. But she was supportive, although I knew that she didn't know how to help me with it. She was just like your hair is good. You know, she would tell me your hair is good. You know, like, just push through it. You know, like, just hold on.

25:13

But it was hard to look at myself and see that I couldn't style it the way I wanted. I had no clue how to deal with curly hair and I waited a couple months and then I couldn't perm it again. That was the first time I tried. I was like I don't know what to do. Um, so I went back and I permed it. But the last time I followed through and I I just went and I said to just cut it off, just cut off all the parts that are straight. And that was hard. I couldn't help. But my hair in a ponytail, um, I straight up looked like a little boy I go like I was like what happened here?

25:57

I didn't know how to do my edges nothing. I had just learned about intercontrol. This is 2015. This is how little I knew what look.

26:07 - Nachi (Host)

Look. I started mine in 2002 and yeah and we, we didn't have, you know, the youtube videos and all those influencers teaching you how to do your hair.

26:24

I mean, I went to a salon in harlem where I literally spent the whole damn day them doing my hair, like putting you know, doing this treatment and doing a twist hairstyle, and I was like, well, I can't spend my whole saturday at a salon, so I have to figure things and I would just I would do my own hair. But it's funny because some people loved it and then I had people, especially older women, whether they were Dominican or even, um, uh, african-american older women, because I used I used to work at this hospital and I swear to you these, I love these women but they would always comment on my hair. They're like, ooh, why your hair look like that girl?

27:15

you better take that off, because I used to have my hair in a twist and and I was in school right there like and and you need to straighten out that I wasn't like it didn't move me, it was just like but imagine if you were like okay, from older women who were so used to having their hair straight and they come from an era where you know that they would go through, you know, hot, combing their hair right because they wanted it straight and relaxing it, you know, every couple of months and so, um, you know, having to deal with that, it was just like, okay, yeah, that's my hair.

28:08

I like it curly you know, this is the way it is going to be and I let it, um, because I went through so that that first one, that first transition, was a big, was a big chop. My hair was already short but prior to me deciding to go natural because I had cut it short, so it was an easy transition and I was okay with short hair at that time. Um, but then, as it you know, started growing and, um, I'm gonna say probably 10 years later, eight or ten years later, I decided to put a texturized up, right, because I was like I was so irritated about her.

28:52 - Damaris (Host)

I was so irritated when she told me she did that and that's all.

28:56 - Dhayana (Host)

That's a whole different conversation too. I was like you're such a dummy.

29:01 - Nachi (Host)

My hair was straight and like if I use the relaxer I was like, because that's what essentially it is it is, it is it really is I was like oh damn natchi oh my god. And I did it at home, so it wasn't like I went to a salon she showed me.

29:20 - Damaris (Host)

I was like you're stupid.

29:22 - Nachi (Host)

I was like you're an idiot I was like why is it straight?

29:29 - Damaris (Host)

no, because you relax it again. I was like a texturizer is just a code code for a relax.

29:39 - Nachi (Host)

Oh my goodness. Oh, just another. I have to start a little, but I what? I didn't want to do a big chop, I transitioned, I just let it, you know, grow out and trimmed it as I went along, but at that time it was being more accepted to have you in your natural right, it was more. Um, you know, people were more open to it where they really weren't, back in early 2000.

30:05

Um yeah, and, like I said, my whole salon experience is like a whole day type of thing, because you know, it's just like, I loved it, but at the same time it was. I can't spend a whole day at the salon just to get a twist just to get a twist.

30:27 - Dhayana (Host)

But I had the worst part about my experience though real quick is that I remember going to the salon and because I didn't have the fancy products, that's another thing I observed you know how everybody will come in with your fancy bag of like matching expensive products and stuff. I had that. I had that. Like what was that? That was like a conditioner in the yard. That's like um blue. I was gonna say them come on wait.

30:55 - Damaris (Host)

How can I know what you're talking about?

30:56 - Nachi (Host)

but I I don't know yeah, that shit doesn't work.

31:04 - Dhayana (Host)

But listen, I wasn't the affordable bracket, okay, I was not no buying, no expensive here, 50,000 pesos or like what I said. So I felt like they always left me for last. I was almost always the last person to be tended to, and it was also always like in a rush and not with much like care. You know what I mean. Like you treated my head like it's a second class citizen or something.

31:33

You know it's just moving, it's just not a lot of care. So those are things that I noticed as well yeah, it's funny for me my transition.

31:43 - Damaris (Host)

So, like I mentioned earlier, when my hair was relaxed, especially throughout our high school and in my 20s, my hair was long and flowing, so I was like whatever, this is amazing and I had bangs.

31:56 - Nachi (Host)

I love bangs so that was my thing and I didn't believe.

32:00 - Damaris (Host)

If you had curly hair, you got bangs.

32:02 - Nachi (Host)

Look at me now. Look at me now.

32:03 - Damaris (Host)

Look at the bangs now okay, yeah, but when it was straight, you know, I mean my one of my cousins. He's an idiot. He used to call me black Brenda. So if anyone watched 90210, belly hose, 90210 the girl Brenda, she had bangs and long, straight hair. He's like black Brenda over here, he's an idiot.

32:23

So I I maintained relaxed hair and but I also was very vigilant about maintaining its health, using good conditioners etc. All that stuff, going to the salon regularly and getting my trims. But I noticed, like towards my mid to late 20s, into my 30s, it was like my hair wasn't as thick anymore. It was breaking off a lot. So that meant I had to keep cutting it, because I'm one where I rather have it looking healthy than just having long hair with scraggly ends. But I was also accustomed to having long hair. So I just kind of felt like what's happening to my hair and um, and it was because at the time I didn't realize what it was, but it was because I was using those very expensive protein conditions protein conditions, perhaps using them weekly, which you're not supposed to.

33:19 - Dhayana (Host)

So yeah, all kinds of things.

33:23 - Damaris (Host)

So and I wasn't giving my hair the moisture that I needed, especially if it's going through a relaxer process. It's already chemically processed. It needs moisture and I was just giving it more protein and it just was making it brittle and I was like why is my hair doing this? So I was just like it's the relaxer. But you know what? I see that as it's my spiritual team telling me you need to get off these chemicals that are damn not good for your system, I promise you because, then I was like let me cut it.

33:50

I didn't put the connection that it was the protein conditions. I was like you know what? It's the relaxer. It's high time for me to stop using them. And so by this point I'm like in my late 30s I'm still in corporate. I'm like how am I going to do this? Because, again, I have no idea what my natural hair looks like None At this point. It's been like 20 years that I've had it relaxed and it is.

34:16

And it's not crazy. My natural hair is scary. But that process of like because I also don't have enough time Like, what am I about to say?

34:26 - Dhayana (Host)

this morning.

34:27 - Damaris (Host)

And I don't have enough time.

34:28 - Dhayana (Host)

Are you going to be nice or naughty?

34:30 - Damaris (Host)

Girl and I don't have enough time on the weekend to really experiment and see what it's going to be like, because I got to go to work Monday. So it was just like a lot of just putting my hair in a ponytail and just slicking it back and whatever. And I wasn't happy because I was like my hair is always in a ponytail, it's looking dry and apparently you know how Caribbean people are. There was this Caribbean, this West Indian woman at work. She's like your hair is looking dry.

34:57 - Nachi (Host)

I was like I know she didn't.

35:00 - Dhayana (Host)

I was like did it put that olive oil? Yeah, I was like I want to just slap her.

35:06 - Damaris (Host)

I was like like I don't know, bitch, yeah, I know. And then when I would straighten it flat, iron it. It was a lot thicker than it was it had been in years. So then when the white people see me with my hair straight and I work in this thicker fluffier because you know how it is when it's natural it's not going to be bone straight and I wasn't trying to also permanently damage my curls. So it's like they're like wow, look at that hair. So it's just like you don't need to give me the wow, just be like your hair looks nice or don't say nothing at all.

35:41 - Nachi (Host)

Right, we don't need a whole showcase.

35:44 - Damaris (Host)

So it made me feel self-conscious about then even letting my hair out and it was just like I'm exhausted by y'all and I was like I'm getting tired.

35:53

I was frustrated with my hair just because it was between two different states. And when it's like that, you still don't know what your natural hair is going to do, because it's still, you still got these straight ends and yeah, and then it was like I was no longer in my corporate job and I was able to actually really get to know my hair much better, because I had the space to do that in my home and I was in a safe space for myself to be able to experiment and figure out what it is that works for my hair and what doesn't. And yeah, I missed at first the ability to run my fingers through my hair, but then now my relationship with my hair. I love her. I've always loved my hair. She just does her own thing. She's a Leo like me. She does what she wants when she wants, however the fuck she wants, and sometimes it doesn't align with my schedule and I have accepted that. She's beautiful.

36:59 - Nachi (Host)

But it's been a journey for us and it's a Now there's been many a times where I had to talk to Maris off the ledge.

37:11 - Dhayana (Host)

Oh yeah, I thought about it.

37:14 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, yeah, no, I yeah. There were times I was like I'm going to get a relaxer and I just like don't. I was like this is a lot of work.

37:22 - Dhayana (Host)

Don't do it. Take it, no, no seriously, and I get it.

37:26 - Damaris (Host)

I get it. You need patience. But once you're past that transition state and I cut off those last bits of straight hair, it's just like OK, it's getting better and it does, and it's just a matter of like getting to that point of like understanding your hair and everybody's hair is different. So it's like, even when I do my mom's hair, she's no longer relaxed. She hasn't been relaxed in years, but it's still. We got to do different things to her hair than I would do to my hair, than what Nachi would do to her hair. Nachi is has the luxury to be able to do whatever she wants to her hair, however she wants. Her hair will never fall out.

38:03

Meaning I would color it, I would love to do whatever I want to do. I mean relaxes at the same day.

38:08 - Nachi (Host)

I mistreat my hair a lot of the times. Like I'm one of those types that I'll do at home coloring and, as you heard, the texturizer Today I feel like I'm cool. Let me see how this works, yes, and by the grace of God I still kept my hair Like it never fell out. So very appreciative. And you know safety with different products the Maris would get. So I would tell the man oh, the Maris, I found this product. Why don't you try it? I think it'll work.

38:41 - Damaris (Host)

She's like I don't think it's going to work. I'm like it did nothing. It was like putting spit on my hair, like what are you talking about?

38:47 - Dhayana (Host)

This shit is trash what you talking about, if anything, my hair, yeah.

38:52 - Damaris (Host)

I'm like you hate me. You're trying to make me look ugly out here in these streets. I'm like no it should work.

38:59 - Nachi (Host)

This is really really good. Try it, try it. She was sending a picture, we're done.

39:07 - Dhayana (Host)

I know the disaster. The amount of product that I tested to.

39:11 - Damaris (Host)

There's just so many products out there.

39:13 - Dhayana (Host)

And honestly, they don't work the same for everyone to deliver a texture because of the health levels of our hair, or how often do we color our hair? Or you know, I really truly believe that the way we take care of ourselves is the same way, that it's like a ritual with our hair, is patience with our hair, is love with our hair and it's really saying you know, I have the time and I can do it, because it's easy to compare our hair textures to other people, because I've done that why isn't my hair, you know, lose her curls? Why doesn't it fall like this? Why, you know? And then I would just keep making myself feel uglier and more unworthy of it.

40:01

But it really is a healing connection, like you have to heal your connection with your hair and that is completely a game changer. But it's also a really big challenge because that healing comes with that shedding. So that's literally what I went through. I was like I'm shopping it off and people were like what did you do? Like could it be a general method, which I think is sort of can I?

40:23

your hair was long and it was really long, but I'm like I don't think I can anymore. I wanna start. I wanna start again. You know like I wanna start fresh, and so it's definitely like a healing journey and connecting with yourself and I feel free. You know like, with the shorter hair right now, I'm just like yo. This is a shake. It doesn't matter what I do.

40:45 - Nachi (Host)

I just you know, god, I look when I cut my hair it was. I was like oh yes, I don't have to do too much to it. It's a you know get up and go type of thing.

40:59 - Dhayana (Host)

It is Same thing with my mom. I was living with her four weeks ago and we went to these alone together and she caught her hair, like me, you see, and to her that was also very emotional because she was like I don't know, like it's too short, but I was like, well, mom, it's a lot of the parts, her dad, a lot of the parts are uneven, and I know it's scary because I've been teaching my mom how to take care of her curly hair and it's hard for her to. She doesn't have the patience. Sometimes she's like I don't like it. I don't know what.

41:36

You're telling me, that I think I'm putting enough but I'm not putting enough conditioning and I'm not putting enough oil, and I can see her frustration. But it's just because she also never had the time to connect with her hair the word that she's having to right now, and that self acceptance and patience, is not there. But I'm slowly teaching her through myself. Like you look beautiful, like I know it gets like crazy some mornings and you may think you can, but I leave her everything ready, like I literally put the oils together for her.

42:10

Except one and two. That's all you need. One and two, right yeah?

42:15 - Damaris (Host)

No, it's interesting because you know we talk about these perceptions you have of yourself, how, for me, my hair has always been my crowning glory. So when I was going through that transition I was like, oh, I don't feel attractive as attractive anymore because I'm not able to, like, let my hair out because it's looking and doing stupid shit. And I just, you know, it's looking dry Thanks to a woman at work. She confirmed it, you know. So it's just like it takes a toll. And then you know, obviously, until you, like you said you have to heal that part of you that's like okay, you're letting go of those straight ends, and part of that is like you letting go of that standard of beauty that you also felt like is the only way that you look good in and so I.

43:09

It was. Now I'm definitely what has been like nine years. I love my hair, I've always loved my hair, but I've always had, like I said this, you know, sometimes a contentious relationship with her, and but it it's. I love that I can do whatever I want with her right, like if I want to have a straight for, like, november through December, great, you know, I have her straight. I just, I just know how to take care of her Baby that is our magic. People with it.

43:37 - Nachi (Host)

Yes, and it is like that is really our magic.

43:39 - Damaris (Host)

I add water and it's like oh, the versatility of our hair. Yes, yes, and I also find that my natural hair is an act of rebellion for me, like I don't have to look like you. I look like me, cause only I have this hair. You know, no one has these strands, so it's my way of living. My motto of my hair is, like you know, my motto is I do what I want, when I want, how I want, and this is what my hair represents for me right now, you know.

44:10 - Dhayana (Host)

And yes, it's done If you're right. Okay, some people be asking that question.

44:15 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, bitch, yes, this is what it is.

44:19 - Dhayana (Host)

Thank you. Why? Because I don't have the edges down, they don't have to be done.

44:24 - Nachi (Host)

No you don't have to have the edges.

44:26 - Damaris (Host)

You don't need to lay down your edges. No, that's the choice. Yes, if you want to gray if you don't. Okay, Nobody's stressing you.

44:36 - Nachi (Host)

Exactly, exactly. So it's interesting, it's freedom.

44:40 - Dhayana (Host)

Honestly, as we come to that acceptance, it's absolutely freedom, because we're no longer worrying about how people are going to view us, because we know that there is love within us and that radiates outside of us. And so you know the comparisons, and then your hair is better, my hair is better, your hair is worse, or it's just all silly illusion, right? So I think that that's the power of that we want to continue to transmit to other, you know, to our girls in the future. You know, when we have kids you know you have kids it's like how can we let them know how to take care of their hair, that their hair is beautiful, that there are plenty of people in the world with different types of hair and no hair is better than the other, right? And that there's so much history and culture that said, don't forget to subscribe to our channel.

45:32 - Damaris (Host)

I think it can be a beautiful journey, as we can be. You say I'm not yelling, I don't care.

45:37 - Dhayana (Host)

Right, what nobody says. Okay, that way, completely just for you, and that comes with that acceptance. Yeah, and sometimes you don't realize that I didn't realize it.

45:49 - Damaris (Host)

In particular, like I said, for me, I enjoy wearing my hair natural. You know, while I make complain about her sometimes, I do enjoy wearing a natural. I like that it's big, I like that it's like curly or just whatever is living its best life. And you don't even realize how you end up being a representation for others by wearing your hair this way, because my neighbors, I have this black family and they have two little girls, I would say probably like seven and maybe five. And one day the mother told me she's like my daughter loves your hair.

46:29

I was like oh, she was like all shy about it. Like, like you know, mom, like how could you tell?

46:34 - Nachi (Host)

her, you know.

46:35 - Damaris (Host)

I was like. I was like when you don't even think people are noticing, they, you know, and the right people are noticing, like that made me feel good because I'm like, oh, I hope that little girl knows that she could wear her hair however she wants and that there's not the only way to wear is not having it by having it straight in, right. You can, you're beautiful regardless of how you wear your hair. It's you wearing your hair, you know, not your hair wearing you, kind of thing.

47:04

And so that felt good about that and knowing that, okay, by me going out this way and wearing my hair this way, people see that you know and people that look like me, and especially young girls that look like me, feel good about seeing that you know. My phone is my phone.

47:23 - Nachi (Host)

You can call me whatever you want.

47:25 - Damaris (Host)

I love it because y'all stay sweating me anyway and be like oh yes that's right?

47:33 - Dhayana (Host)

Yeah, I really do. I really do love the versatility of her hair, like, yeah, I saw me last week in my curly hair Pop out with a braid.

47:43 - Damaris (Host)

And it's funny. I thought you cut your hair and I meant to ask you that you know her hair look sure that there was something. There was something on IG you posted. I was like oh, look what she cut her hair from the last time we saw her, but you confirmed it. Yeah but it looks good, I love it.

47:58 - Dhayana (Host)

I love it, so thank you.

48:01 - Damaris (Host)

So what would you say? What do you recommend to people embarking on this journey especially? You know you transitioning from or no longer either transitioning from relaxing your hair or flat ironing your hair regularly? Who?

48:18 - Dhayana (Host)

what would I say, yeah, what are you recommending to people that are?

48:21 - Damaris (Host)

about to start this journey.

48:24 - Dhayana (Host)

Transition. Ooh, I know it may be hard, but I would tell them to perhaps start by writing an intention as to why they are about to embark on this journey, a reminder to themselves that they can always refer to their hair, because people will ask questions, people will make comments. Where you are in the process of shedding your old self and welcoming your natural self, right, yep, whether you feel me, yeah. So that's naturally going to be uncomfortable and it does not have to feel like a beautiful, empowering journey. Right, there's going to be days where it does not feel like that and those days you're just going to have to take a deep breath and be like all right.

49:27

Let me refer back to why I said I was done permitting my hair, right, yep, right. And let me make sure, right, that I remind myself that this is a new experience and so I will fail from time to time at doing this hairstyle that I've never tried before, and that's okay, because I'm learning and because I don't know, I can ask questions. So who can I have? You know? Who can I ask in my circle that has experience about the best ways to approach you know this journey and have your affirmations. You know what I mean Like touch your hair, loving your hair, try a part of different ways. See if you feel more like yeah, I love this. You know what I mean. I rock the same style Whenever I did the big shop. I literally rock the same style everywhere I went, and that's whenever I discovered like we just like put the edge control here and like brush with the gel and then have the big elastic band and push up.

50:32 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, I knew it. I knew it.

50:37 - Dhayana (Host)

Upside down inside out Everywhere. I mean, like I had that gel and edge control on site. That was my to go, and so if you just got to rock the same style different, you know different ways, then so be it, but nurture your hair, the same way that you nurture yourself loving your head, the same way that you love yourself.

50:58

Understand again that people will have comments, but at the end of the day, is how you want to live and express yourself in the world, Right? So I would really truly say that to people. And another thing is that if, if a couple of years later you say, fuck it, I want to cut my hair, that is still a beautiful journey to and that's okay because it will grow again, Just like how we continue to what learn and learn and grow, fall apart, we come together. It's the same thing. You know what I mean. So I think that it's it's all one beautiful experience.

51:43 - Damaris (Host)

I love it because you took the spiritual route and I'm going to provide some tangible things, other additional, additional tangible tips. For me, number one was being patient. Just be patient with your hair. That's especially if you're about to transition. Just be patient. Secondly, don't give up and you kind of touched upon this, diana. Like go back to the why you're doing this right. And then, lastly, for me, is get regular trims. Your hair will look so good as long as you trim and cut the dead ends.

52:18

It's always going to look good and it'll grow fast because you just it's always looking healthier and just health as well at all levels. Okay, no, honestly, that trim, yes, the trim you let us that trim advice is gold.

52:36 - Dhayana (Host)

I'm not even going to lie, because I hit points where I was like, oh, I have to cut it off. Cut it off, and they're like baby girl, you just need a little trim and I was sad. I was like you know when you're better, you're like who is get that trim?

52:57 - Damaris (Host)

Now, do you have any last final tips?

53:00 - Nachi (Host)

No, I think you both hit on everything you know having patients. You definitely need patients because you're going to go through those, those instances where you just want to either cut your hair, relax it, just want to give up. All come, you know, all together, but it's like to your point, diana, just go back to the why. What was the reason that led you to embark on that natural hair journey and have fun. Have fun with it. Yeah, I mean it is versatile, we could do absolutely everything.

53:43

And it's about having fun, and that's what I've always enjoyed about my journey with natural hair. Is this the fun of doing it? You know, like doing the different styles and I just, you know, I just love and continue to love it and the short style that I have it now. So, and don't texturize your hair.

54:07 - Dhayana (Host)

It's a scam, it's an actual crime, it is a loveable chemical on your hair.

54:12 - Nachi (Host)

Do not glue it with the clothes, kick yourself, don't do it.

54:16 - Damaris (Host)

Don't do it.

54:17 - Nachi (Host)

Not worth it Not worth it.

54:20 - Damaris (Host)

No, I love it because you know what we're coming from, a very real perspective of like it wasn't. Just it's very easy to be like oh, you know I had curly hair, but it was just like you blew it out and it's straight.

54:33

It's like no, our hair is the kind of hair that you needed to use a relaxer If you really wanted that straight look and I feel like there's a certain group of Latinas that are really going to be able to relate to us Black people general, and that includes black Latinos and, you know, black Americans, all from just black Caribbean. I mean, we know what we go through with our hair. It's something that we're told by beauty standards that it's not good enough, it's not beautiful, but it is actually quite the opposite, and so I hope you know people get from this conversation that you know your hair and your journey is unique to you and it's how you look at yourself and how you hold yourself and how you take care and nurture yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually and that is, and part of that is, how you treat your hair too, how you talk to yourself. So always, you know that's it. So I'm going to close out like I always do.

55:40

There's a lot of noise out there, but our message is consistent Stop getting distracted by the smoke and mirrors, tune out the noise and focus on your purpose in life, focus on what brings you happiness. We're meant to be joyful, so live that truth and vibrate higher. And, as always, thank you for listening.

56:00 - Nachi (Host)

Bye.

56:03 - Damaris (Host)

I love it. Stay on a couple of seconds. Oh, that was good. I was like I'm so happy we did this one. This one's going to be good. Yeah, I can't, I can't wait. So there's so many, so many directions you can go with this conversation. Yes, it's like just not. Yes, yes.

56:41 - Nachi (Host)

Yes, okay.

57:04 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, yeah, it just dawned on me, like, towards the end I was like, oh, you know what Again? Because while we will put up the video, like on our YouTube channel and stuff, but not everybody's going to be able to see our hair to degree, you know, up close and personal. And there are a lot of people that will talk about, you know, Dominic Institute, that, their natural hair journey. But it'll be like, when I look at the hair, I'm like, yeah, but you didn't never had to relax, so you just always blew it out right. To me, that's very different than my journey and I represent those people that have to relax. They, or, you know, felt they had to relax their hair and so I feel like that nuance of it and you know, while, yes, looser curls, yes, that was that used to be the, the what, the aspiration I'm like it's not for me. I love my hair, like I love the curls. I just wish sometimes she would work with me. Right, right, cause you still got the the. Yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right, yeah Now. So I don't even go into the oh, like you know, they have different pattern numbers, right?

58:45

I didn't want to say that on the show Like, oh, I'm a four, whatever, four something, and it's like that shit really doesn't even matter because you still, you're still not the same Cause, even cause, right, exactly. So I'm like, even if you say you were four, eight, no, no, I didn't. I was like I'm not cause, I'm like that, I was just going by tight curls, yeah, right, cause, I'm like that doesn't mean anything. And when I was going through the journey, I thought that meant something like oh, there's certain products that work. No, no, that's bullshit. Products will work on here If they want to work with you, and there's so many other variables to it than just oh, is it a tight curl or is it a loose curl? It's irrelevant. How thick is your hair? You know the? What's the diameter? You're here and you're not getting into the science of everybody's here. So, right, I'm like.

59:53

I'm like, for me, my jealousy was, was not she, was that she could try any product and it worked fantastic on her. I was like how does that work? How do you, how do you live your life like that? You live in the clouds. Your life is, your life is lit. That every product worked for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right To me. I'm like oh, if you want to talk about good here, that's what that shit is. Not know who fucking that. You could do better than the fuck you want to hit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

01:00:24 - Nachi (Host)

Yeah, yeah.

01:00:29 - Damaris (Host)

Yeah, basically, basically, her hair is immortal. That's what she is Basically. How close it gonna be like shiny, shiny, beautiful curling and just moving. You're like what the fuck? What's happening? No, no, that that is it. She's got the immortal curl. That that's the perfect way to describe because I'm like I don't understand. I think people is not that. Her hair is loose curls. You need to understand how it should just do, whatever it works or whatever. I'd never seen hair like that.

01:01:21

But, oh, thank you, I see that it was uploaded. How do you know? Respect your time. Oh, yes, please, please, send it to us. I'm excited about that. I'm not a writer, so so help you know.

01:01:40

Okay, okay, good, good, sold, sold, okay, Cool, you guys started, yep, yep, no, thank you for coming out again. Yeah, yeah. So we're like recording. You're going to be like one of our first five that we're going to launch with, and so we're trying to get that by the end of this week We'll have had five and then then we'll be able to release them and then we'll be recording probably through the end of the year, beginning up next year, and then probably take a pause and then resume.

01:02:35

I know, yeah, oh, awesome, that's actually be very helpful. Yeah, that's good to know. Yeah, no, no, no, I appreciate that. Yeah, no, no, it'll be good. And, by the way, before we go, I'll be there. I'll be there around Thanksgiving in Atlanta. I don't know if you'll be there around that time around Thanksgiving. I still don't have my days, we don't have our tickets yet, but we're usually there for like about a week and a half or so, but I don't know if you're out there. I would love to see you. Okay, okay, oh, you are Thanksgiving baby. Okay, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, exactly, look to see your person. Good, all right, thank you, bye.